2G Newbie trying to plan a restomod build. 500HP?

[astronull]

Hello all,

Finally got my 1995 Eclipse GSX in the garage from storage. I'm planning a full frame up restoration, and looking for some assistance.

My goal is mainly a toy car, take to shows and cruise around when the weather is good. I'd love to hit 500HP, but I'm sure I'd be happy with a reliable 350 too. What should I be upgrading during the rebuild vs keeping OEM-ish?


Here's what I got so far, go easy on me , this is my first DSM and my first project like this...Already feeling like I'm in too deep


So far this is what I have for the Engine build so far:

• Machine block to 2.3L or 2.4L?
• Manley Plat series pistons
• NGK BPR7ES plugs
• Balance shaft delete
• MAPerformance E85 Fuel System
• Turbo (Suggestions needed)
• Intake system (Suggestions needed)
• Exhaust manifold (Suggestions needed)
• Cams (Suggestions needed)
• Boost controller (Suggestions needed)

Non-engine related:

• FMIC (Suggestions needed)
• ACT 2600 clutch
• Possibly full trans rebuild, if not at least syncros
• 17" wheels
• Big brake kit
• Coilovers (Suggestions needed)
• Poly bushings
• 3" full exhaust

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Any reason you want a stroker? The 2.0 revs further and can make your goals. Just wondering is all.

 

[astronull]

Any reason you want a stroker? The 2.0 revs further and can make your goals. Just wondering is all.

No logical reason really, just thought more bore more power . You think it's wiser to stay at 2.0?

 

[pauleyman]

Bore doesn't equal 2.3. Stroke does. I encourage you to review. A lot needs to be changed.
It is very important to know what each part does. You can get a great big turbo to get to 500 but you may hate it. Depends on what you do with the car.
If you've never driven anything but a stock gsx I suggest treading lightly.
Read this. I think it will help.

https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/project-management-and-building-a-dsm.421705/

 

[jdxnc]

Strokers also expediate the death of the W5M33 transmission.

Any particular reason for "500hp"? I see so many people post HP goals rather than real world goals that matter. Do you want it for bragging rights? Do you want it to run a number at the track? Do you want it to corner? Power to weight ratio and other factors make HP goals so pointless in my mind.

So far this is what I have for the Engine build so far:

• Machine block to 2.3L or 2.4L? - 2.0
• Manley Plat series pistons
• NGK BPR7ES plugs - run what the car needs during the tune
• Balance shaft delete
• MAPerformance E85 Fuel System
• Turbo (Suggestions needed)
• Intake system (Suggestions needed)
• Exhaust manifold (Suggestions needed)
• Cams (Suggestions needed)
• Boost controller (Suggestions needed) - EBC controlled by your tuning software/ECU

Non-engine related:

• FMIC (Suggestions needed) - Treadstone TR1035
• ACT 2600 clutch
• Possibly full trans rebuild, if not at least syncros
• 17" wheels
• Big brake kit
• Coilovers (Suggestions needed)
• Poly bushings
• 3" full exhaust

Added my comments.

 

[Justin DuBois]

Some things take way more money than you expect it too, and some parts are extremely hard to find and will need creative solutions.

Best to identify the things you won't be doing yourself, and locate the professionals you are planning to use so you can work out the time and budget.

Here are some things I learned on my journey.

1. Carbon Fiber parts have LONG lead times (months) They are not already made and ready to ship in most cases. If you really want CF body parts - order them now.
2. Vehicle specific parts are no longer made. Belt moldings, glass holders, drip moldings, etc are the ones you need to save, restore, buy used etc.. Make a list and start looking.
3. 2Ga Eclipse specific 2" door caps, and side skirts are rare and fragile. Also not sold after market, so start scrounging.
4. Be careful if you plan to mix and mach body parts. 2G Talon and 2Ga Eclipse use one headlight design, and 2Gb Eclipse use the other. Make sure you locate a complete setup for the bumper, headlights and fog lights that go together.
5. As you dissemble, be organized. Assume you will need to re-use everything you have unless you already have the replacement in hand.
6. Start a build thread - I found it handy to use the 1st page as an index with links as you go. This helps you locate the chapters of your journey :

https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/itflys-1gina2g.532766/post-153790307

 

[Justin DuBois]

Most of your list with comments:

• Machine block to 2.3L or 2.4L? A: I like 2.0L
• Turbo (Suggestions needed) A: 1st time DSMer? I'd start with an affordable Big 16G, and make that work to 100% capacity, (~380hp) and then decide based on the kind of driving you do if you want something different.
• Intake system (Suggestions needed) A: make sure it matches your head ports. 1G or 2G. There is nothing wrong with a 1G or 2G stock manifold - you can port them to match the throttle body you want.
• Exhaust manifold (Suggestions needed) A: if you want it to look like stock - get a Evo3 exhaust manifold (better flow than 2G) and re-use your 2G heat shields. Heat shielding is really important - whatever you get, be sure to fabricate or buy some good shielding.
• Cams (Suggestions needed) A: 1st time DSMer? use stock until you max out the tune on your setup.
• Boost controller (Suggestions needed) A: I run ECM Link v3 chip in a stock ECU, and ECM Link has built in electronic boost control, and even works with the stock boost control solenoid.

Non-engine related:

• FMIC (Suggestions needed) A: Depends on front bumper cover. I had a custom big side mount fabricated 20 years ago - still using it.
• 17" wheels A: depends on the brake kit.
• Big brake kit A: I like StopTech - lots of people like Brembo's)
• Coilovers (Suggestions needed) A: Don't forget the custom work needed to make your alignment correct. (control arms etc..) I was running JIC's and am switching to OHLINS.
• Poly bushings A: Yes - and also look for subframe bushings from "Dudes" in Germany. Also - want to think about what ball joint arms you are going to use.
• 3" full exhaust A: Maybe after market is out there or custom job - The Downpipe flange needs to match the O2 housing that you are bolting to your turbo. Evo3 o2 housing are great if you can find them, but need a custom downpipe in a 2G

 

[Spleen8urLSX]

Keep in mind too a full stock transmission rebuild might not be practical, many of the parts needed to do so are no longer available as they haven’t been made in years and were never reproduced. There’s still reputable guys that can do a rebuild but that’s using what new parts can be purchased along with what can be salvaged and re used from the existing transmission combined with parts salvaged from other transmissions. Not that it’s a bad way to go but it gets costly and if there’s nothing wrong with the transmission currently then in my opinion there’s no sense in tearing into it as a stock rebuild is just as big of a liability at your goals as a properly functioning untouched stock transmission. Even then there are upgrades you can have done to help a synchro trans live happier and be less prone to user error but again it comes at a cost and it’s still stock gears when it’s all said and done that aren’t any stronger than what they were originally and once you get to a certain amount of torque and abuse 3rd gear will be prone to strip the teeth off. This isnt to be discouraging but very often I see new comers thinking they’ll just have a full stock rebuild done on a trans like other platforms only to be disappointed when they discover it’s not that simple for us anymore due to parts availability or lack of.

Also you’re looking a bit broad in your goals. An evo3 16g on a ported stock 2g exhaust manifold on e85 with the proper support will have no problem making 350 turned up if not a little more, and even could do so reliably with no issue on an untouched bottom end given that it’s healthy, but you start talking the 500 ball park and it’s a whole different game. Something like a bolt on FP red on a ported stock 2g exhaust manifold or ported evo3 exhaust manifold or FP race exhaust manifold would have no problem making 500 on e85 or race gas with the proper support, but in that example if you were to decide you would want more your options would be limited unless you wanted to redo the entire set up. If you were to go with a t3 set up right off the rip and get away from the bolt on stuff you could go with something like a Holset hx40 (in the proper turbine housing) or gtx3582r and have room to grow by simply having it retuned or by simply bolting on any plethora of t3 framed options and having it retuned as there’s t3 framed turbos out there now that are capable of getting over the 800 territory on low reading dynos with the proper support. Yeah you’d have more into it and more fab work getting everything to fit but then it’s done and more options are opened for later.

My advice would be as mentioned above, start with a 16g set up, real MHI big 16g or evo 3 16g not much difference between the 2, but true MHI will give you the reliability, the ching chong copies work and do the same thing and feel exactly the same despite what people will argue but the reliability isn’t there and they often have a short life expectancy. As far as the manifold goes a ported 2g exhaust manifold or ported evo 3 exhaust manifold flow and perform the same once ported but the evo 3 one is cast with nickel like the evo3 16g turbine housing, making it even less prone to cracking than the 2g one, however the 2g one will perform just as well and is pretty tough being that finding an evo 3 exhaust manifold isn’t very easy these days. An fp race manifold would also work just fine in this case however with its large rubber design isn’t the most efficient option and would kill some spool as it’s intended for larger framed bolt on turbos, but will work none the less. Avoid the cheap tubular stock flanged manifold’s, all too often people don’t research and buy these assuming they’ll be an improvement because they look cool, but they flow worse than the unported stock unit, not uncommon for them to crack after a few heat cycles, and 9 times out of 10 come out of the box with the flanges heat warped from China and need to be milled by a machine shop if one ever intends for them to seal, budget exhaust manifolds have their place but not on bolt on set ups when there’s far more efficient and reliable options for as much or less invested, but hey at least the crappy tubular ones look cool right? Same with the o2 housing, ported stock one will flow better than any of the cheap China jobs out there that are just as junky as the manifolds. I say shoot for that 350ish on a basic 16g set up with supporting mods without getting too deep into it, you may be satisfied and enjoy the car like that, if not and you decide you want more you won’t be rebuying a bunch of parts and redoing a bunch of work.

 

[astronull]

Keep in mind too a full stock transmission rebuild might not be practical, many of the parts needed to do so are no longer available as they haven’t been made in years and were never reproduced. There’s still reputable guys that can do a rebuild but that’s using what new parts can be purchased along with what can be salvaged and re used from the existing transmission combined with parts salvaged from other transmissions. Not that it’s a bad way to go but it gets costly and if there’s nothing wrong with the transmission currently then in my opinion there’s no sense in tearing into it as a stock rebuild is just as big of a liability at your goals as a properly functioning untouched stock transmission. Even then there are upgrades you can have done to help a synchro trans live happier and be less prone to user error but again it comes at a cost and it’s still stock gears when it’s all said and done that aren’t any stronger than what they were originally and once you get to a certain amount of torque and abuse 3rd gear will be prone to strip the teeth off. This isnt to be discouraging but very often I see new comers thinking they’ll just have a full stock rebuild done on a trans like other platforms only to be disappointed when they discover it’s not that simple for us anymore due to parts availability or lack of.

Also you’re looking a bit broad in your goals. An evo3 16g on a ported stock 2g exhaust manifold on e85 with the proper support will have no problem making 350 turned up if not a little more, and even could do so reliably with no issue on an untouched bottom end given that it’s healthy, but you start talking the 500 ball park and it’s a whole different game. Something like a bolt on FP red on a ported stock 2g exhaust manifold or ported evo3 exhaust manifold or FP race exhaust manifold would have no problem making 500 on e85 or race gas with the proper support, but in that example if you were to decide you would want more your options would be limited unless you wanted to redo the entire set up. If you were to go with a t3 set up right off the rip and get away from the bolt on stuff you could go with something like a Holset hx40 (in the proper turbine housing) or gtx3582r and have room to grow by simply having it retuned or by simply bolting on any plethora of t3 framed options and having it retuned as there’s t3 framed turbos out there now that are capable of getting over the 800 territory on low reading dynos with the proper support. Yeah you’d have more into it and more fab work getting everything to fit but then it’s done and more options are opened for later.

My advice would be as mentioned above, start with a 16g set up, real MHI big 16g or evo 3 16g not much difference between the 2, but true MHI will give you the reliability, the ching chong copies work and do the same thing and feel exactly the same despite what people will argue but the reliability isn’t there and they often have a short life expectancy. As far as the manifold goes a ported 2g exhaust manifold or ported evo 3 exhaust manifold flow and perform the same once ported but the evo 3 one is cast with nickel like the evo3 16g turbine housing, making it even less prone to cracking than the 2g one, however the 2g one will perform just as well and is pretty tough being that finding an evo 3 exhaust manifold isn’t very easy these days. An fp race manifold would also work just fine in this case however with its large rubber design isn’t the most efficient option and would kill some spool as it’s intended for larger framed bolt on turbos, but will work none the less. Avoid the cheap tubular stock flanged manifold’s, all too often people don’t research and buy these assuming they’ll be an improvement because they look cool, but they flow worse than the unported stock unit, not uncommon for them to crack after a few heat cycles, and 9 times out of 10 come out of the box with the flanges heat warped from China and need to be milled by a machine shop if one ever intends for them to seal, budget exhaust manifolds have their place but not on bolt on set ups when there’s far more efficient and reliable options for as much or less invested, but hey at least the crappy tubular ones look cool right? Same with the o2 housing, ported stock one will flow better than any of the cheap China jobs out there that are just as junky as the manifolds. I say shoot for that 350ish on a basic 16g set up with supporting mods without getting too deep into it, you may be satisfied and enjoy the car like that, if not and you decide you want more you won’t be rebuying a bunch of parts and redoing a bunch of work.

Thanks for this, yeah I definitely think I may be going a little deeper than I need to with the little knowledge I have. I think a reliable 350 is the right move to start off. I'll go with the 16g and build around that! I own the car now , so if I want to change something I can!

On the trans stuff, the car is barely drivable so I've only gotten a baby pull through 3rd. I just noticed some hefty grinding into 1st. Could just need some fluids though.

 

[astronull]

Strokers also expediate the death of the W5M33 transmission.

Any particular reason for "500hp"? I see so many people post HP goals rather than real world goals that matter. Do you want it for bragging rights? Do you want it to run a number at the track? Do you want it to corner? Power to weight ratio and other factors make HP goals so pointless in my mind.


Added my comments.

Honestly, no real reason. I guess it would just be bragging rights? I plan to go to track days, but nothing extreme. After this post I'm definitely going to pull back a little and stick to the 16g and see what I can get out of it!

 

[Justin DuBois]

Honestly, no real reason. I guess it would just be bragging rights? I plan to go to track days, but nothing extreme. After this post I'm definitely going to pull back a little and stick to the 16g and see what I can get out of it!

Be aware - there are different 16G out there. You will want to locate the "Big" version of the 16G from a GVR4, or an EVO3. There is a stamp on the compressor cover of a MHI - TD05H compressor that will tell you what compressor wheel it was cut for. - Look for a 42, or a 47.

There is a thread where all the MHI turbo identification numbers were listed, (can't find it)

If you need any services to rebuild a turbo, consider reaching out to the moderator - JusMX14 on this site.