Newbie asking Newb questions :(

[HiTempguy]

The question I have may not have a simple answer, or it might not matter. It is a pretty straightforward question though, I just can't seem to find the answer to it.

What is worth more power, a DSMChip with 550cc injectors (plus a boost controller to raise the boost to 18psi), OR, a tubular o2 housing with 3" downpipe, straight piped exhaust with boost controller set to 15psi?

If anyone has any thoughts, let me know!

 

[1990clipse]

Exhaust. Do not raise boost without afpr, tuner, and foremost a boost guage!

DSMchip?

 

[GSXSixteenG]

If you are completely stock, you should definately free up the exhaust before anything else. You don't need a tubular o2 housing. Get a 2g manifold and 2g o2 housing then 3" downpipe and back.

 

[1990clipse]

This is a good upgrade path for you.

RRE 1st Generation Eclipse  Upgrade Path

 

[LiquidX]

All together, you would get more power out of the chip, but it's pointless now to get it without other supporting mods to allow the power that the tune on the chip can create. As 1990Clipse linked, use the upgrade path for your build. Once you have the supporting mods, then go and do the tune. IF however you went with ECMLink and found it for CEAHP I would go and jsut pick that up to get all the power you can out of the current setup and you wouldn't need to re burn the chip for each tune.

 

[1990clipse]

Where you talking about an actual ecu mod chip or one of those retarded ebay chips?
like this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PERFORMANCE-CHIP-MITSUBISHI-ECLIPSE-1990-2010-2009-2008_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem25584f7b84QQitemZ160395393924QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

 

[juzslidin]

Where you talking about an actual ecu mod chip or one of those retarded ebay chips?
like this one: PERFORMANCE CHIP MITSUBISHI ECLIPSE 1990-2010 2009 2008 : eBay Motors (item 160395393924 end time Jan-16-10 12:42:06 PST)

its kinda a chip but very programable . go to ecmtuning.com

 

[1990clipse]

its kinda a chip but very programable . go to ecmtuning.com

Sorry i should have been more specific. I know what ecmlink is, I was referring to the original post.

 

[HiTempguy]

Sorry i should have been more specific. I know what ecmlink is, I was referring to the original post.

DSMChips.com | DSM ECU Chips Enchanced by Keydiver

There seem to be a lot of good reviews of his product. I unfortunately do not want to be bothered doing the tuning myself, be it piggyback or standalone.

If you are completely stock, you should definately free up the exhaust before anything else. You don't need a tubular o2 housing. Get a 2g manifold and 2g o2 housing then 3" downpipe and back.

Now, while in normal circumstances I would upgrade the exhaust first, I am more interested in which would net me a faster car, due to limited resources (time, and money). I also am trying to avoid removing the exhaust manifold and turbocharger at the moment, as those are relatively time consuming (IMO) "bolt-ons". I can swap the ECU and injectors out quite easily, just like I can swap the o2 housing and the rest of the exhaust out quite easily. Now, unless I am mistaken about the way something like the dsmchips (for instance) works, it would not matter if I bolted on an exhaust later, as all that is doing is improving the efficiency of the motor, no? So like the other poster said, I will not see the full potential of the chip until I improve in other areas (which is fine, if it is faster when comparing between these two different paths). Even if it did require a reflash, its $20 + shipping. I'll be able to handle that in a couple of months no problem

Do not raise boost without afpr and a boost gauge

I also (personally) do not see the need for an AFPR at the moment, that seems slightly... overkill. Unfortunately, I am asking these questions in the noob section because I am new to DSM's, not new to cars by any stretch of the imagination (so yes newbish questions in regards to DSM's, but I can't post anywhere else either and I hope to get some well thought out responses). Searching through dsmtuners is like pulling teeth, not fun.

 

[1990clipse]

You seem to think that you know a lot about turbo cars so im not gonna tell you what to do, however any way you look at it in order to turn up the boost, your gonna need a lot of supporting mods for it to run efficiently. Secondly 15Ibs of boost is a lot on that 20 yr. old 14b. I really would suggest you open up the exhaust (2g exhaust manifold and o2 housing, 3in), Intake (hard intercooler piping, hard intake, high flow filter). Their are other things that you could do to make it faster, but how long do you think thats gonna last before you start blowin shit up?

 

[HiTempguy]

You seem to think that you know a lot about turbo cars so im not gonna tell you what to do, however any way you look at it in order to turn up the boost, your gonna need a lot of supporting mods for it to run efficiently. Secondly 15Ibs of boost is a lot on that 20 yr. old 14b. I really would suggest you open up the exhaust (2g exhaust manifold and o2 housing, 3in), Intake (hard intercooler piping, hard intake, high flow filter). Their are other things that you could do to make it faster, but how long do you think thats gonna last before you start blowin shit up?

I am not trying to argue with you (discuss, most definitely), just making sure I am getting the right responses and expanding my knowledge of cars, especially DSMs. You can appreciate that can't you?

If I were to throw out what I figure, from my readings of the forums, a 14b will live quite happily at ~20psi with the proper precautions taken, assuming its been maintained.

My biggest concern is the most bang for the buck at the moment, and I personally do not have the experience to know which is best in the scenarios I first listed. Once I get some money together, I would obviously follow a more standardized route. I take it your vote is for doing the "supporting" modifications first

 

[tkelly27]

This is kind of a catch 22. You can get the chip and the injectors, but you'll still have that cork of an exhaust slowing you down. You could also get an exhaust, but then you run the risk of creep, overboost (which sucks), and running lean.

I'd rather see someone invest in their fuel system than anything else. The stock fuel pump is barely hanging on at the limits of the stock injectors, so even if you get 550's you'll want a bigger fuel pump. The 190 and 255 are the same price, but the 255 needs a pressure regulator... and you can see where this is going.

The RRE guide is kinda BS these days. The prices are high, and some of the parts are pointless. $450 for intercooler pipes to the stock IC? When you can get an ETS FMIC kit for $700?

I say, think of your dream DSM within reason. You're not gonna track down Shep, and the odds are against you to hit 9's. 10's are pretty plausable, and a lot of parts you can get now can help you get there. A full 3" exhaust is fine to 10's. A 255 fuel pump can handle it too.

85% of people who get 550cc injectors eventually get a bigger turbo and have to eat the cost of the injectors when they buy new ones. Those injectors are too small for the evo turbo just like 450's are too small for the 14b, duh. Unless it's a beer money blaster, there's no reason to get 9xx or 1k injectors.

The O2 housing is harder to remove on the car than the turbo or manifold, FYI. Tubular O2 housing doesn't insulate you from creep either.

 

[HiTempguy]

This is kind of a catch 22. You can get the chip and the injectors, but you'll still have that cork of an exhaust slowing you down. You could also get an exhaust, but then you run the risk of creep, overboost (which sucks), and running lean.

I'd rather see someone invest in their fuel system than anything else. The stock fuel pump is barely hanging on at the limits of the stock injectors, so even if you get 550's you'll want a bigger fuel pump. The 190 and 255 are the same price, but the 255 needs a pressure regulator... and you can see where this is going.

The RRE guide is kinda BS these days. The prices are high, and some of the parts are pointless. $450 for intercooler pipes to the stock IC? When you can get an ETS FMIC kit for $700?

I say, think of your dream DSM within reason. You're not gonna track down Shep, and the odds are against you to hit 9's. 10's are pretty plausable, and a lot of parts you can get now can help you get there. A full 3" exhaust is fine to 10's. A 255 fuel pump can handle it too.

85% of people who get 550cc injectors eventually get a bigger turbo and have to eat the cost of the injectors when they buy new ones. Those injectors are too small for the evo turbo just like 450's are too small for the 14b, duh. Unless it's a beer money blaster, there's no reason to get 9xx or 1k injectors.

The O2 housing is harder to remove on the car than the turbo or manifold, FYI. Tubular O2 housing doesn't insulate you from creep either.

BAM! Wow, that was an incredible post, basically pieced together all of the little bits floating around dsmtuners in one clear and concise post.

I guess it sounds like people need more details about where the car is going to give the best response. No, the car will not get a bigger turbo. It will always have a 14b. It will always have a SMIC (probably a new uppipe, it sounds restrictive). RRE has 190lph pumps for $100 with an "install" kit, whatever that is or mean (the kit) if as you say it can barely supply the 450's.

Basically, this car is going to go as fast as it can with bolts ons is the end-goal (which won't happen for a while). I will not be hacking it apart, splicing wires like mad, or basically demolishing the car to make it go fast. Clean, and simple!

So then, I guess if a tubular o2 doesn't fix boost creep, then a 2g o2 housing won't, which probably means that the only true fix is to port the wastegate, which I REALLY didn't want to do.

It also sounds like (from the point I am at right now) that it would probably be more beneficial to go with the chip, as I don't currently have the means to port the wastegate. Unless if I don't get boost creep at 15psi, but it sounds like it will be an issue with a 2.5" dp/3" exhaust.