New Short Block Arrived...but it's NA?....PICS!!

[fourgsixthree33]

Alright so after a very long wait for my short block, I finally get it. Only to find out it is a NA block upon inspection. Today, unwrapped it, took the pistons/rods out, and....where the hell are the oil squirters? So take the tarp off of my old block to compare. Also compared pistons/rods too.

I don't know what to do. Paid $375 shipped for this short block via paypal from a trusted member on here. He was not aware this was NA. It came out of his turboed 2G Talon TSi AWD. He ended up having to pay $288 to ship this thing out. So I can't see shipping it back to him being a solution. What should I do?

Here are some pics....

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My other turbo block.

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Turbo pistons on the left. NA on the right.

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[bastarddsm]

The pistons definitely are nonturbo ones. What are your plans for it? If the bores are solid, you could just get a set of NPR 2g turbo pistons off ebay, and have them put on your rods. The squirters definitely are not a deal breaker.

The only real differences between n/t and turbo shortblocks are
1. 9:1 vs 7.8:1
2. Oil squirters
3. knock sensor location may be missing, just use a different hole.

Crank and rods are the same, those number are just casting numbers. I've seen soch 4g63 out of trucks with rods that have the same numbers on them as rods from a 92 tsi motor.

 

[fourgsixthree33]

The pistons definitely are nonturbo ones. What are your plans for it? If the bores are solid, you could just get a set of NPR 2g turbo pistons off ebay, and have them put on your rods. The squirters definitely are not a deal breaker.

The only real differences between n/t and turbo shortblocks are
1. 9:1 vs 7.8:1
2. Oil squirters
3. knock sensor location may be missing, just use a different hole.

Crank and rods are the same, those number are just casting numbers. I've seen soch 4g63 out of trucks with rods that have the same numbers on them as rods from a 92 tsi motor.

Plan was to put my Evo 8 pistons and rods in this, new bearings, bolt on my brand spanking new 7 bolt head, and that's it. But wasn't sure about the oil squirters. If I had Ross pistons or something, I wouldn't mind having no squirters. But will my Evo 8 pistons hold up with no oil squirters?

I know some people choose not to use them WITH THEIR FORGED SETUP due to the less likely chance of getting crank walk as the squirters could clog up.

Just no idea what to do...

Evo 8 pistons and rods

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[bastarddsm]

How hard are you going to push this thing. I made about 350whp on a with a 16g on a 6 bolt n/t motor. Eventually broke ring lands, when it went way lean on a pull. So unless your going for super high power I think you will be fine.

Looking at your profile, I'd say put it together if your staying under like a bolton 50trim/hx35/green/3052. Get a new set of rings, dingle-ball hone the cylinders, clean the block really really good, and put it together with new bearings. Make sure you do a killer job of cleaning the block. Use hot soapy water, and take all of the galley plugs out. Then swab the galleys with a brush.

I'd get that crank polished too.

You'll need something like a dsmchip or linky, because going from 7.8: to the 8.7:1 of the evo stuff will require quite a bit of work to the timing map.

 

[TSi Kid]

I'd be livid, you seem more calm.. haha

 

[fourgsixthree33]

Nope, this is my DD. Id only ever push this to 300-350HP MAX. Plan on building the f*ck out of my engine I pulled out. So, this is just to get to work and back for now. But still being able to play with Honda's and V8 Bimmers.

 

[talonDSMerr]

You may be looking in the wrong place for the squirters. The new "NA" block is a 7-bolt, and the squirters on the 7-bolt blocks look different than those on the 6-bolt blocks.

 

[D's GS-T]

It's always been kind of a debate on here whether the oil squirters are needed or not, so I'm not sure what to think about that. I agree that unless you are making a lot of power the pistons and rods you have should hold up fine. I'd still be more worried about those piddly ass 7 bolt rods going out at High HP then not having oil squirters. I think with good tuning and proper assembly you'll be ok. 3-350hp is nothing, run em and as mentioned abouve 7 bolt oil squirters are a little tougher to find. You almost have to look down at an angle to find them, atlest you do on a 2G.

 

[talonDSMerr]

EDIT: Here is a picture of the 7-bolt oil squirter.

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[fourgsixthree33]

You may be looking in the wrong place for the squirters. The new "NA" block is a 7-bolt, and the squirters on the 7-bolt blocks look different than those on the 6-bolt blocks.

Both engines are 7 bolt...

 

[talonDSMerr]

Both engines are 7 bolt...

You're right, sorry. The 92-94 squirters are similar to the 90-92 squirters. 95-99 squirters look much different.

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[19Eclipse90]

Build it appropriately for what you want to use it for (since you've got it down this far anyway) and don't worry about it. It's not like you got ripped off, IMO.

Anyway, this is a first class example of why you (in general not you, OP, particularly) can't rely on things that can be removed or swapped from a different block to determine what you've got. Using the VIN or pulling the pan and checking for squirters is about the only sure fire way of knowing what your engine block is.

You've circled the wrong side of the non-turbo block where the oil squirters would be on a 1G block (as it is clearly a 1G and not a 2G block which would have different oil squirters as mentioned above). See below.

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[fourgsixthree33]

Build it appropriately for what you want to use it for (since you've got it down this far anyway) and don't worry about it. It's not like you got ripped off, IMO.

Anyway, this is a first class example of why you (in general not you, OP, particularly) can't rely on things that can be removed or swapped from a different block to determine what you've got. Using the VIN or pulling the pan and checking for squirters is about the only sure fire way of knowing what your engine block is.

You've circled the wrong side of the non-turbo block where the oil squirters would be on a 1G block (as it is clearly a 1G and not a 2G block which would have different oil squirters as mentioned above). See below.

Good stuff. And you make a valid point. So with my goals and selected piston and rods, would you say I should be fine with having no oil squirters?

 

[19Eclipse90]

My opinion is there wouldn't be any issues related to not having oil squirters for what you plan to do with it.

 

[fourgsixthree33]

My opinion is there wouldn't be any issues related to not having oil squirters for what you plan to do with it.

This is what I wanted to hear.

How do I go about using the knock sensor? Where would I install it?

 

[92AWDHX40]

I would look on the back for a spot, not sure where my block is on the shop not sure on a na, i was going to do that na turbo set up but i got a turbo block since then.

 

[fourgsixthree33]

I would look on the back for a spot, not sure where my block is on the shop not sure on a na, i was going to do that na turbo set up but i got a turbo block since then.

Would I have to drill into the block or is there an existing hole I could use?

 

[92AWDHX40]

not sure havent seen a na block in some time now.

 

[delta448]

Can I just say I hate photobucket?

I can't see any of the pics in this thread here at work since my work blocks that site.

Would it be too much to ask to have you upload the pics to the site? Not just for me, it's better for those who will be researching this same thing 3 years from now.

Oh and bastarddsm, I'm sure you just forgot, but 2G turbo pistons are 8.5:1.

 

[19Eclipse90]

Red - Stock location
Blue - Alternative location.

Edit: You have every right to say that, Zack. It's a free country, after all. I've changed mine.

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[fourgsixthree33]

Can I just say I hate photobucket?

I can't see any of the pics in this thread here at work since my work blocks that site.

Would it be too much to ask to have you upload the pics to the site? Not just for me, it's better for those who will be researching this same thing 3 years from now.

Oh and bastarddsm, I'm sure you just forgot, but 2G turbo pistons are 8.5:1.

Wouldn't let me upload all of them. I will try again after another reply is made.

 

[delta448]

So, now that I can see some of the pics... I still can't tell if there are any stampings on the pistons. Stock turbo pistons for a 2G will have

63DTF1

stamped on the crown.

Also, you'll have to look down the bore with the piston out in order to see the craptastic 2G squirter.

 

[fourgsixthree33]

So, now that I can see some of the pics... I still can't tell if there are any stampings on the pistons. Stock turbo pistons for a 2G will have



stamped on the crown.

Also, you'll have to look down the bore with the piston out in order to see the craptastic 2G squirter.

This is what I have on my Turbo pistons, 63D T K1.

 

[delta448]

63DTK1, that's a 1G 7 bolt turbo piston, part number MD308200, CR is the same as 6 bolt at 7.8:1. Could've been swapped, have you checked for the 2G squirters?

edit: Oh I see, the other says 63DK... That's a 1G 7 bolt N/T piston.

 

[fourgsixthree33]

63DTK1, that's a 1G 7 bolt turbo piston, part number MD308200, CR is the same as 6 bolt at 7.8:1. Could've been swapped, have you checked for the 2G squirters?

edit: oh I see, the other says 63DK... not sure off the top of my head, but I think it's a 1G 7 bolt N/T piston.

The pistons are definitely 1G 7 bolt NA pistons. Which would lead me to almost have to assume the engine is a 1G 7 bolt NA. Unless some panzy a$$ thought he would throw some 1G NA pistons into a 2G engine? That is probably a little out there haha. So, it HAS to be a 1G 7 bolt NA engine.

I thoroughly checked things over and there were definitely no oil squirters or jets of any kind in this engine.