New modular clutch wont go into gear

[KYLE JORGENSEN]

Alright, since rebuilding the RS 420a engine (blew the old one up), the car runs good and idles beautifully, the only issue I seem to be having is when the car is on the ground it does not want to shift into any gear, here's the kicker when I lift the car's front end up off ground (no resistance), it has utterly no problem shifting and driving (watching the speedometer work, tires moving), I did replace the master and slave cylinders with new units, bled 100 times, but every time i set it on ground just wont shift I'm completely lost any help would be appreciated

southeast clutch 4-puk modular

 

[XC92]

Wait, it won't actually shift into gear, or won't stay in gear and move the car? What happens when you try, locking, grinding, kickback, etc.?

 

[KYLE JORGENSEN]

with the pedal not pressed in it shifts in gear's fine (like normal), but start the car and press the pedal in and it wont shift in to any gear, but lift the front end and it will shift and drive just fine I'm thinking air bubble but i've bled it 100times

 

[KYLE JORGENSEN]

I have driven it while it was up (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, R) All worked and it never slipped out of gear and shifted nicely, but like i said lay it back on ground and it wont shift anymore

 

[XC92]

Again, what do you mean by won't shift into gear? What happen when you try? The shift lever is blocked from going into gear, the gears grind, or it pops out? These are different things with different possible causes.

I assume it's a FWD.

Btw, what happens when you put it into gear when it's on the ground with the engine off, pedal up, then start the car?

 

[KYLE JORGENSEN]

its blocked from going into any gear with pedal pressed in and car on ground, no grinds, no pop outs when pedal is depressed I can shift into gears just fine. when you place the gear in 1st and start the car it jolts forward like its engaged already when you start of the car

 

[KYLE JORGENSEN]

I find it weird I can drive it while its up, no issue's at all but once I drop it on the ground it wont shift like it did while it was up this engine is completely New with a new clutch..... trans had no issue prior to engine take out

 

[AWD-Tony]

Have you tried adjusting the master rod?

 

[XC92]

its blocked from going into any gear with pedal pressed in and car on ground, no grinds, no pop outs when pedal is depressed I can shift into gears just fine. when you place the gear in 1st and start the car it jolts forward like its engaged already when you start of the car

Ok this is what I don't understand. You say that "its blocked from going into any gear with pedal pressed in and car on ground", but also "when pedal is depressed I can shift into gears just fine".

Both CANNOT be true, unless you're not explaining yourself properly or leaving something out.

Make no assumptions and don't assume that we know what's going on. You have to describe EVERYTHING that's going on, car up or down, engine on or off, pedal in or not, etc.

Let's make this simple. Car on ground, engine running, you press clutch pedal all the way down, and try to shift into 1st. What happens?

Blocked?
Grinding?
Popping out?

NOT the same things.

 

[AWD-Tony]

Ok this is what I don't understand. You say that "its blocked from going into any gear with pedal pressed in and car on ground", but also "when pedal is depressed I can shift into gears just fine".

Both CANNOT be true, unless you're not explaining yourself properly or leaving something out.

Make no assumptions and don't assume that we know what's going on. You have to describe EVERYTHING that's going on, car up or down, engine on or off, pedal in or not, etc.

Let's make this simple. Car on ground, engine running, you press clutch pedal all the way down, and try to shift into 1st. What happens?

Blocked?
Grinding?
Popping out?

NOT the same things.

I don’t see the issue here. He can’t get it into gear when it’s on the ground, and no issues when it’s in the air.

 

[XC92]

I don’t see the issue here. He can’t get it into gear when it’s on the ground, and no issues when it’s in the air.

He posted this above:

its blocked from going into any gear with pedal pressed in and car on ground, no grinds

when pedal is depressed I can shift into gears just fine

Both cannot be possible at the same time, unless the latter is when it's up, and he didn't specify that. As for why it goes into gear in the air but not on the ground, no grinding, just blocked from going into gear, wouldn't that be a shifter issue, e.g. cables, bushings, connections, etc.? If it was grinding it would be a clutch issue, but it's not.

Also could it be a trans/engine mounting issue, which could manifest itself differently depending on whether the car's on the ground or up?

 

[AWD-Tony]

His original post is clear. As long as the transmission, engine, flywheel, pivot ball and clutch are bolted correctly, I don’t see an issue here. He can have the engine sideways and hydraulics will push the fork.

 

[twicks69]

Did you replace your clutch fork or clutch fork pivot ball while you had the transmission off? The 420A / SRT4 clutch fork pivot balls are notorious for excessive wear because it is a 2 piece pivot ball with plastic cap that egg-shapes over time. The part is typically upgraded to either a Boomba SRT4 forged pivot ball (it installs in a NVT350 / A578 / F5MC1 transmission as well as the SRT4 T850 transmission. Otherwise you can drill and install a threaded insert and run a 3000GT 1 piece forged pivot ball (what I typically do on transmission rebuilds for these transmissions). The stamped steel clutch fork for your transmission can sometimes wear down the pads that the throwout bearing rides against, but it is much more prevalent on the SRT4 T850 cast clutch fork that literally wears down the tabs so much that it will cause disengagement issues.

As well, I believe that the 2G NT 420a has the same clutch pedal adjustment at the clevis/rod that actuates the clutch master cylinder, or at least similar to the 4G63 stuff. I don't have one here to verify the exact differences.

 

[BLACK'98DSM]

Your clutch may not be dis-engaging. The synchros can easily put it in gear when there is minimal load.

Did you properly snap the TOB onto the clutch fork using the 2 small tabs?

 

[SixBolt_16G]

I had that happen a couple of summers ago... I could move it into every gear when the car was in the air, but when it was on the ground.. nada... but id get a grind if i tried ... I dont recall all the specifics because Ive had a number of clutch problems throughout the years and have a hard time connected which issue to which solution worked, but I think it was because my clutch fork was bent. If it wasnt that, it was because I blew some springs out of the clutch.

 

[KYLE JORGENSEN]

Your clutch may not be dis-engaging. The synchros can easily put it in gear when there is minimal load.

Did you properly snap the TOB onto the clutch fork using the 2 small tabs?

yes this i did that properly when i put it back together and its a brand new clutch but i feel its not disengaging as well like you said with minimal load it rolls beautifully but once placed on ground nada

 

[XC92]

I think that people are trying to tell you that it's likely a clutch issue. Did you adjust the clutch pedal and master cylinder rod and make sure it's all within spec per the FSM and that there's no slop or play with the pedal, beyond spec?

Thing is, if the clutch isn't fully disengaging, it would make grinding sounds and not block you from shifting into gear at all (which is why I asked several times what was specifically happening). If it's blocking, it could be something else, the shift cables or bushings or maybe even the trans.

 

[KYLE JORGENSEN]

I am gonna have to drop the tranny and see whats going on I just find it so weird it runs/drives great when the front end is just barely off the ground (enough to burn a little rubber shifts great) but wont go into gear when on ground

 

[XC92]

Yeah I think we pretty much all know by now that it only shifts when up, not on the ground. Hopefully you can figure out why and fix it. I'd start with the clutch and shift systems before dropping the trans though. Not just the hydraulics but everything, pedal, levers, linkages, rod, etc.

 

[KYLE JORGENSEN]

Dropped the transmission to find out the pressure plate was tighten down too hard, would not allow for proper/or a full push on the fingers as well as too much play in the fork itself which is weird since its new. I fixed it with some sand paper and a tiny dab of steel stick as a mold and attached it to the pivot fulcrum to make it's mold and surprise surprise it worked fixed the play and set the bearing properly on the pressure plate, this bad boy up and rolling love the grip of this clutch, shifts nicely too, now back to the GSX build

 

[KYLE JORGENSEN]

Did you replace your clutch fork or clutch fork pivot ball while you had the transmission off? The 420A / SRT4 clutch fork pivot balls are notorious for excessive wear because it is a 2 piece pivot ball with plastic cap that egg-shapes over time. The part is typically upgraded to either a Boomba SRT4 forged pivot ball (it installs in a NVT350 / A578 / F5MC1 transmission as well as the SRT4 T850 transmission. Otherwise you can drill and install a threaded insert and run a 3000GT 1 piece forged pivot ball (what I typically do on transmission rebuilds for these transmissions). The stamped steel clutch fork for your transmission can sometimes wear down the pads that the throwout bearing rides against, but it is much more prevalent on the SRT4 T850 cast clutch fork that literally wears down the tabs so much that it will cause disengagement issues.

As well, I believe that the 2G NT 420a has the same clutch pedal adjustment at the clevis/rod that actuates the clutch master cylinder, or at least similar to the 4G63 stuff. I don't have one here to verify the exact differences.

this you were right on 100% thank you found a fix that works good

 

[dustyboner]

Dropped the transmission to find out the pressure plate was tighten down too hard,

FYI: Modular = pressure plate is riveted to the flywheel. its all one unit
Non-modular = Traditional clutch with the pressure plate bolted to the flywheel

 

[KYLE JORGENSEN]

FYI: Modular = pressure plate is riveted to the flywheel. its all one unit
Non-modular = Traditional clutch with the pressure plate bolted to the flywheel

FYI I already know
that, and FYI this is a modular clutch with non rivets holding it in it has standard allen key screws NOT RIVETS keeping the modular clutch together

 

[dustyboner]

when did they start doing that shit? back when i got my 420a education there was no such thing as a modular clutch that wasnt riveted. I was unaware things have changed.

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[KYLE JORGENSEN]

when did they start doing that shit? back when i got my 420a education there was no such thing as a modular clutch that wasn't riveted. I was unaware things have changed.

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It depends on manufacturer honestly, majority of OEM's are riveted like Luk and Exedy. I did quite a bit of research on what clutch to go with while still retaining it as "modular" for the 420a and keeping it under $200 So I went with South East Clutch's S2 modular clutch with HD Miba Copper Ceramic 4-Puck Clutch Disc and HD Pressure Plate. I am happy with it now it works good and shifts nicely