need help with rusted broken and/or rounded bolts

[juntjoo]

I have a bunch of rusted bolts that have broken that I need to remove and have been attempting to use one of those inverted drill bits that as you can see broke:

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and one of those bits you use to finish screwing into the broken bolt counter clockwise to extract it which you can see below I've also broke, which now the top is stuck in a broken bolt

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and tonight, with the rest of that bit, which would have been enough for this bolt that connects the caliper halves, I tried to extract this bolt but now the part of this little hand wrench thing, sorry I don't the names of most of these parts and tools yet, is now too rounded to even properly grip this extracting bit.

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so now in three different holes I've got two parts to this extracting bit stuck and one has the end of a broken inverted drill bit, all of which are made of materials harder than bolts I've been trying to extract, so am I now going to need an even tougher application to remove this crap mess I've made or what? what am I doing wrong here that I've ended up with this worse situation. thanks for any help you guys can provide. as you can see I definitely need it.

 

[turboglenn]

After 2 decades of breaking and fixing things,which alkl things i have use bolts here's the BEST METHOD EVER

I guided my friends son through doing this on the phne TODAY, when he broke an intake manifold bolt off his girlfriends car.. I have honestly removed 3 bolts this week (one from a holset hx40 housing and 2 from the 16gthere was a half a third one in the 16g but it was "special" and another story)

I did them all in this fashion, just this week ... seems because of my business and that most of my friends know most of their stuff, i always get the calls that your average guy panicks when faced with

works better than anything i've ever tried, you won't find an easy out, screw extractor or anything of the nature in my shop, RARELY will i try and weld to a bolt because usually the metal you weld to on the bolts is rusted crap and the weld breaks

anyway., here's teh deal..

1.) try and get the bolt surface where your gonna drill flat with a small grinder, dremel tool or whatever

2.) if the bolts aren't siezed you can dremel a slot in them and use a flat head to unscrew them (But were arne't here for piddly crap)

3.) use a punch, nail set or anything you can to strike a nice starter point in the center of the bolt (no one ever gets them "dead center" on purposed..we all try but only luck lets us succeed now and then

4.) using a small drill bit drill into the bolt..here's the kicker/.. GO ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE BOILT (this is key for this process, you MUST go all the way through s in the end there's area to relieve the tension or put the displaced material)

5.) proceed through larger and larger bits until you're sorta scared because you realize you're not dead center and you're about to see the threads on the "part" side of the hole you're drilling bolt (this is where you're almost home )

6.) if possible (meaning a good variety of drill bits) step up to the next size to where when you are done you CAN see the threads/material of the head/block/whatever.. now stop drilling and grab that punch again

7.) what's left of the bolt now probably looks like a half moon if you're a normal person who didn't strike gold with hitting dead center after several drill bit sizes and a lot of curse words

8.) on each "side" of the "half moon" (meaning not the thick center) take your punch and start useing it and a hammer to drive/fold the bolt material inwards to the cener of the hole

9.)now strike the center with the punch and you should be joyous in realizing the bolt has been defeated, it just needs kicked out of the ring At this point i usually use a pointed pair of snips and grab the bolt by the thick part and start working it around, some times you will be able to unthread it like this, (may take some more bending and working with the punch)

10)and SOMETIMES, they are so bad you have to use the punch and a couple picks and small screw drivers to pick/punch and pry all the remaining bolt material from the hole... this method has NEVER failed me (ALL THE OTHERS HAVE MANY TIMES), and as you know, when you break an easy-out off the in the bolt your job just got harder cauyse you gotta break, beat and pray it out of there before you can finish (and they are brittle ass junk IMO)

here's a couple bolts i just removed that were frozen in a 16g turbine housing that came to me for some work.. didn't dig too hard, but found a perfect example still laying in the front groove of my mill talble from the 16g

 

[juntjoo]

nice, but what if your broken bolt has a broken easy out in it? someone said carbide bit but mine isn't doing much at all, as if the bit and the easy out are made of similar strength materials. I bought a really expensive diamond topped one but its too fat to get a hold.

as far as welding though, what kind of metal would be strong enough to use that my bernzomatic torch won't be able to melt? then maybe I'll figure out what kind of welding tool I'll need.

 

[atownturbo]

I also have 6 sided and 12 pointed sockets for more rounded bolts..And if that fails, I have this thing called a gator grip socket..That usually gets the more rounded ones off.

And if that fails.Chop the head off, and drill and tap, or the easy out.

Come on Bud, you know there is a tool made for rounded bolt right? I have the set and it has yet to failed me.

Bolt Extractors - Screw & Bolt Extractors - Tools - IRWIN TOOLS

 

[bryanwheat]

That easy out is way to small for a bolt of that size. They are a hardened material so you won't be able to drill it out. You will have to shatter it with a punch or chisel. The best bet for a very rusty bolt like that is to drill it out like 95 percent of the way to the edge of the threads than run a tap thru it.

IF you read this post you will see that i told you that the extractor is too hard to drill out and must be shattered with a punch to remove it.

what kind of metal would be strong enough to use that my bernzomatic torch won't be able to melt? then maybe I'll figure out what kind of welding tool I'll need.

Almost every metal has a higher melting point than that little propane torch will reach. You need an oxygen mixture to melt most metals. IT will come no where close to melting the steel that the bolt is made out of.

 

[kbiker76]

Propane torches like that dont weld.. They start fires and cook marsh mellows nicely in a pinch though!

 

[NHerron]

The other week all 4 bolts holding the turbo to manifold snapped right off. And yes, they were the damn ARP's.

I used the method similar to turboglenns and followed up with a good quality tap in case I nicked any of the threads. Well everything was going great until I got a stupid idea on the 4th bolt. I drilled it like normal but decided I might force the remaining threads out of the hole with a tap. Well the tap snapped off. I tried shattering the tap and got some leeway but eventually came a point it just wasn't working anymore.

One word. Dremel. That's right, at the cost of two $5 bits, I eventually got that SOB disintegrated into little dust particles. You would have to find the right stone to fit inside the bolt hole though. The manifold to turbo bolts I was taking out were 10MM so I had a bigger hole to fit a dremel bit into. I don't know what bit to recommend you, but I attached a picture of the one I used, you might try using the bit which sharpens chainsaws since that is small in diameter

 

[juntjoo]

IF you read this post you will see that i told you that the extractor is too hard to drill out and must be shattered with a punch to remove it.



Almost every metal has a higher melting point than that little propane torch will reach. You need an oxygen mixture to melt most metals. IT will come no where close to melting the steel that the bolt is made out of.

thanks, yeah, i'm now looking to get the right "punch" for the job. and I did read the post, but I wanted to try welding it before I figured out I can't. didn't really understand what you were talking about regarding welding.

 

[juntjoo]

The other week all 4 bolts holding the turbo to manifold snapped right off. And yes, they were the damn ARP's.

I used the method similar to turboglenns and followed up with a good quality tap in case I nicked any of the threads. Well everything was going great until I got a stupid idea on the 4th bolt. I drilled it like normal but decided I might force the remaining threads out of the hole with a tap. Well the tap snapped off. I tried shattering the tap and got some leeway but eventually came a point it just wasn't working anymore.

One word. Dremel. That's right, at the cost of two $5 bits, I eventually got that SOB disintegrated into little dust particles. You would have to find the right stone to fit inside the bolt hole though. The manifold to turbo bolts I was taking out were 10MM so I had a bigger hole to fit a dremel bit into. I don't know what bit to recommend you, but I attached a picture of the one I used, you might try using the bit which sharpens chainsaws since that is small in diameter

awesome idea. yeah, I saw those at the store and wondered about that while I was checking out diamond bits, which are really expensive, so glad to see someone confirm the dremel bits work. do you really need the dremel or can I somehow use my regular drill?

 

[NHerron]

I didn't try the diamond bits, the ones I used were the stone bits like the picture I attached

Well that sucks you don't have a Dremel, as I doubt a regular drill would spin nearly fast enough. Do you have anyone around thats into small hobbies that might have one?

 

[juntjoo]

no, no, I'll buy a dremel. I just like to minimize clutter. not much room in a 1 bedroom apt. that's it, off to grab a dremel AND a punch and I ain't looking back.

 

[J_HEATH]

I drill and tap. I got my DSM from Kentucky, even though it only has 61k miles on it it still had some surface rust and some jacked up bolts. I've replaced most of them and will eventually have them all replaced with OEM, ARP, or something better. I've had to drill and tap a few though.

 

[luv2rallye]

Follow Brianwheat and turboglenn advice.
And like everyone has said, a propane torch will NEVER get it hot enough. You MUST use something that mixes oxygen with another gas (like acetylene for sure would do it {which is your standard gas welding torch} - or MAPP if you hold it on long enough). Sears (and maybe Home Depot) sells a MAPP/O2 torch kit which you could try (must get the one with O2 not just Mapp: http://www.sears.com/bernzomatic-ox...SPM2283549903P?prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1) - (it has a crappy/touchy O2 valve (knob) but it works way way better than propane and far less $ than an O2/acetylene torch). You MUST get rusty/siezed bolts GLOWING RED hot to get them out which only an O2 mix can do. Note with an O2 mix torch be very careful to turn the O2 on AFTER igniting the other gas and then off BEFORE turning off the other gas (ie. O2 must NEVER be on by itself - you seriously risk an explosion!!!).

And Brianwheat is right when he says easy outs and extractors are for bolts that were just snapped from over tightening - not siezed. (Although after you drill a hole in them and then get it glowing red hot, they may then work nicely in the drilled hole).
He's also right saying the extractor is too hard to drill out and must be shattered with a punch to remove it.

I like turboglenn's method in post 26 about grinding it flat (perhaps with a Dremel) and drilling but that is for a bolt without an extractor broken off in it. Once you get the extractor out (by shattering with a punch) it sounds good however. You're going to need some very strong drill bits to drill lengthwise through a bolt.

 

[BigKnick]

After 2 decades of breaking and fixing things,which alkl things i have use bolts here's the BEST METHOD EVER

I guided my friends son through doing this on the phne TODAY, when he broke an intake manifold bolt off his girlfriends car.. I have honestly removed 3 bolts this week (one from a holset hx40 housing and 2 from the 16gthere was a half a third one in the 16g but it was "special" and another story)

I did them all in this fashion, just this week ... seems because of my business and that most of my friends know most of their stuff, i always get the calls that your average guy panicks when faced with

works better than anything i've ever tried, you won't find an easy out, screw extractor or anything of the nature in my shop, RARELY will i try and weld to a bolt because usually the metal you weld to on the bolts is rusted crap and the weld breaks

anyway., here's teh deal..

1.) try and get the bolt surface where your gonna drill flat with a small grinder, dremel tool or whatever

2.) if the bolts aren't siezed you can dremel a slot in them and use a flat head to unscrew them (But were arne't here for piddly crap)

3.) use a punch, nail set or anything you can to strike a nice starter point in the center of the bolt (no one ever gets them "dead center" on purposed..we all try but only luck lets us succeed now and then

4.) using a small drill bit drill into the bolt..here's the kicker/.. GO ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE BOILT (this is key for this process, you MUST go all the way through s in the end there's area to relieve the tension or put the displaced material)

5.) proceed through larger and larger bits until you're sorta scared because you realize you're not dead center and you're about to see the threads on the "part" side of the hole you're drilling bolt (this is where you're almost home )

6.) if possible (meaning a good variety of drill bits) step up to the next size to where when you are done you CAN see the threads/material of the head/block/whatever.. now stop drilling and grab that punch again

7.) what's left of the bolt now probably looks like a half moon if you're a normal person who didn't strike gold with hitting dead center after several drill bit sizes and a lot of curse words

8.) on each "side" of the "half moon" (meaning not the thick center) take your punch and start useing it and a hammer to drive/fold the bolt material inwards to the cener of the hole

9.)now strike the center with the punch and you should be joyous in realizing the bolt has been defeated, it just needs kicked out of the ring At this point i usually use a pointed pair of snips and grab the bolt by the thick part and start working it around, some times you will be able to unthread it like this, (may take some more bending and working with the punch)

10)and SOMETIMES, they are so bad you have to use the punch and a couple picks and small screw drivers to pick/punch and pry all the remaining bolt material from the hole... this method has NEVER failed me (ALL THE OTHERS HAVE MANY TIMES), and as you know, when you break an easy-out off the in the bolt your job just got harder cauyse you gotta break, beat and pray it out of there before you can finish (and they are brittle ass junk IMO)

here's a couple bolts i just removed that were frozen in a 16g turbine housing that came to me for some work.. didn't dig too hard, but found a perfect example still laying in the front groove of my mill talble from the 16g

I hate this method, not because it doesn't work, It does, everytime, but I always use it as a last resort because of the time it takes, so by the time I deem this method necessary I'm so pissed off and spent so much time on the dozen other "quick" methods that I just want to throw out whatever I'm working on and buy a new one HAHA

 

[luv2rallye]

I hate this method, not because it doesn't work, It does, everytime, but I always use it as a last resort because of the time it takes, so by the time I deem this method necessary I'm so pissed off and spent so much time on the dozen other "quick" methods that I just want to throw out whatever I'm working on and buy a new one HAHA

Yep, I have the exact same opinion - it works but.... You also need a rediculously expensive and hard drill bit set (which most of us who don't work in a shop have) to drill lengthwise through a bolt. And if it's a hardened bolt...well, you better have something in the order of diamond tipped hardened steel-carbide drills and be able to put it in a drill press. I tryed 5 standard drills, 3 titanium ones, and a cobalt one to try to drill lengthwise through a single hardened bolt with a hand drill, all with cutting oil, and none even made a dent (it was a frame bolt so I couldn't use a drill press or I might have had a chance).