Need help with a custom 3.0l v6 twin turbo project.....

[silkcity100]

which dsm turbos would be best for this setup?i thinking of going with twin evo3 16g turbos but wondered if there was a ball bearing turbo that would spool as fast as the ev03 but with a lot more top end. i know it will be twice as expensive to it would really have to flow a lot more. i want to use the dsm hot side cause of the smaller housings and wheels.each turbo will have 1.5ltr and only 3 cylinders so i need a small a/r like .3x or .4x
tnx

 

[timloomis]

I have an issue of modified that the guy used twin evo 3's at 16psi, and put down over 500 at the wheels.

 

[tkelly27]

You can get garret turbos smaller than an E3. You'd also have more choices for upgrades later on down the road.

If you must go with a MHI turbo, a 14b can make 300hp, 2x will push close to 600hp and retain reasonable spool. They are also all over the place. People get rid of T25's like they are the plauge, you might be able to get 400-500hp out of a pair of them.

Reconsider getting twins. Most people that make big power make it with large singles. The Turbo Forums.com has a lot of info on custom applications 8, 6, 4, rotary, even lawnmowers and wood choppers.

 

[silkcity100]

tnx again very helpfull info. which issue was that month/year? i would LOVE to do a single turbo setup but no room and would have to hack up fenders n firewall. i dont have to get a mgi turbo just the dsm hot side housing cause they are small.looking for a hot side of about .3x or .4x A/R
all the garrett bb turbos ive found that have the small hot side have compressor wheels that are smaller then the evo3. im looking for something that ball bearing that has the spool up like an evo3 but flow more cfm.

 

[bane3d]

I guess I don't understand why you would use the same turbo twice. I would think that the first turbo can only go so fast so if you are using it to push another of the same turbo, you would only be able to spin that as fast as the first. I think at best, you would be able to have them both spinning at the same speed, at the worst, you would overspin the second one. Maybe if you had a t25 used to spin a much heavier duty turbo, it may work but I think the lag would be so bad, it wouldn't be worth it. I just don't see a way you could twin turbo our systems reliably without a lot of lag. It just seems like when you put in the second turbo, it has to much of a parasetic affect over the whole system to not make it worthwhile unless you are going for something with a huge topend and it's questionable if you'd ever see it.

d

 

[95AWD_TSI_TALON]

Not trying to bash your thoughts or ideas. But If you are having to ask this kind of question you have nowhere near the amount of knowledge you will need to do something of this nature. Keep in mind with a twin set-up you need DUAL everything ( turbos, bov's wastegates, custom built turbo manifolds X2, oil feedlines, return lines, exhaust out both turbos and out the rear) plus your intercooler piping is more complex. Just sit down and actually added up everything FIRST. It will add up QUICK. If you have the funds and the knowledge/willing to do it. Then go for it. BUT make sure you have the time to do it too, so you do not lose interest halfway thru the build.
Good luck,
Matt

 

[Twinky-Ninja]

Since its a V-6, I look at it this way.. You'll basically be running each turbo off 1.5 ltrs of displacement. So the e316g's would spool slower than a single on a 4g63. What will you be reving this out to? Probably less than the 4g63, so you'll be relying more on bottom end. I would go with something smaller. I would recommend a TDO4L-14t. I'm using this on one of my project cars with the same displacement per turbo as you'll be looking at. Its got great spool capabilities and my fav feature is that it has a recirc valve built right into the compressor housing! No need for extra piping.. These should flow enough for your application as well. Another plus is that these are affordable. Now if fabrication and money were not an issue, I'd be looking at custom manifolds with a pair of VF38's. That thing wold be a low end TQ monster

Dave

 

[silkcity100]

project is being kept secret till done. all i asked is if anyone knew of a ball bearing option to the evo3 16g .

 

[Twinky-Ninja]

Last time I checked the VF38 was a ball bearing/titanium turbine turbo. Granted you'll have to veer away from MHI TD05 platform and trail blaze a bit, but thats the fun of it. Have fun with your secret project.

 

[silkcity100]

narrowed down my options to the evo3,50trim bb,and turbonetic ceramic bb options.i was trying to keep it with the dsm exhaust housing or 4 bolt flanged housing.thanks for the help but didnt know they were bb/titanium .i did check them out on blouch turbo but wasnt the housings i was looking for.project is hard enough and was looking to keep it simple`rrrr.i already lots of dsm and 4 bolt flanges to build dp`s.

 

[95AWD_TSI_TALON]

Some of the things you want to look at is what rpm your going to and what boost are you looking to run to make "X" power. IIRC Twin 16's on 3kgts are usually about 600whp around 24psi.
If your looking for a drag type of setup with good upgradeablilty down the road. 50 trims with t3 .48 exhaust housings. ( could do rs49's to get the dsm housing, but the t3 will make your exhaust setup alot easier).
Matt

 

[allwheelTSI]

I guess I don't understand why you would use the same turbo twice. I would think that the first turbo can only go so fast so if you are using it to push another of the same turbo, you would only be able to spin that as fast as the first. I think at best, you would be able to have them both spinning at the same speed, at the worst, you would overspin the second one. Maybe if you had a t25 used to spin a much heavier duty turbo, it may work but I think the lag would be so bad, it wouldn't be worth it. I just don't see a way you could twin turbo our systems reliably without a lot of lag. It just seems like when you put in the second turbo, it has to much of a parasetic affect over the whole system to not make it worthwhile unless you are going for something with a huge topend and it's questionable if you'd ever see it.

d

I don't think he is talking about a sequential turbo setup, so if you are running a paralell setup you would want an equal size turbo on each bank.

 

[silkcity100]

thanks matt,if evo3 could make 600whp on those 3kgt`s then thats what im getting unless there i another turbo that could spool faster but still make the same power or more.

 

[Mikael SS]

I have an issue of modified that the guy used twin evo 3's at 16psi, and put down over 500 at the wheels.

pressure is moot since you don't know the size of the engine.

What are you hp goals? That's how you can pick your turbos.

Personally i'd go with twin 50 trims, you could see 750-800 at the wheels on pump, and they come in bb.

 

[95AWD_TSI_TALON]

Personally i'd go with twin 50 trims, you could see 750-800 at the wheels on pump, and they come in bb.

I suggest the 50 trims also for ease of install. Down fall to get to the 700-800 area He would have to go to a bigger EX housing (.63) which would cause his spool to be quite a bit later. Probly around mid 5k without bottle. The 48 ex housing 50 trims would make a much street friendlier and funner car.

Biggest issue is it for road race, drag, autocross....?

Also is the drivetrain auto or manual? Auto would make a BB turbo completly pointless due to they only help with transitional boost (in between shifts stays spinning a little better).
Matt

 

[silkcity100]

hey Matt ,think im going with a turbonetics ceramic ball bearing cause they have small .3x housing with different compressor wheels and could get them for a grand each.agp has good prices on them and a year hassle free warranty.
im going with the v trim compressor housing or the super v.also going with the .36 exhaust A/R. This setup with have a bigger comp. wheel then the evo3 with a smaller exhaust side.
WHAT DO YOU THINK?

 

[95AWD_TSI_TALON]

I have not delt with AGP for about two years, But between me and PrimedTSI (mr.1017) and customers I have worked on. I have delt with over a dozen turbos thru Ben and Kevin (no longer there) with GREAT success. They are very good in there profession and well knowledged.
Just my best suggestion, the amount of money vs. the benifit of BB is truely not worth it. I have ran a t3 T66 p trim in both a BB and standard. Only difference was the noise it made. NO airflow or rpm variance that truly showed.
Matt

 

[Boo5t_Addict]

Don't take this the wrong way, but I think you're in way over your head. Which do you want, faster spooling, or more top end? With ANY turbo selection, that's basically it. This is how turbochargers work, actually. The only way anyone on here would be able to help you match the right setup for your goals, would be to actually know what your goals are. You're running a 3.0 v6. How much power do you want to make, and what will you be revving to? Pump gas or race gas? There's a heck of a lot to consider, and there's no single answer to the question you've asked. And as far as spooling quicker than an e316g, but having more top end? You can't just have your cake and eat it too.

95_AWD_TSI_TALON, how did you not notice a difference in spool between a BB and non-BB version? Was everything else in your setup the same? Same hot- and cold-side a/r and trim? I've never heard of anyone not noticing a difference in spool between a journal bearing and BB center of the same turbo. That's very interesting to hear, I'm just wondering why you wouldn't see a difference.

 

[silkcity100]

ok more info on what im looking for in a turbo
1.slightly more top end then a evo16g but similar spool up
2.pump gas setup with some race gas to ward of detonation on track days
3.over 600whp revving to 7500rpms

 

[twicks69]

So, you want the same spoolup with more topend -- ball bearing CHRA is the option you just described.

Well, you pretty much would be looking at doing dual PTE bb-50-trims with mitsu housings and external wastegate setups.

This will EASILY do 600whp at 15-20psi on a twin setup on pump gas.

Good luck with your secret project.

 

[skier_du]

Might I suggest the GT2871R as a suitable option. The spool up with the .64 a/r option would be perhaps close to the Evo3, but with way more top end. In twin turbo application they should be capable of 800bhp.
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[silkcity100]

thanks guys,ive tried that exact gt2871 bb turbo and it hit 20lbs of boost at 5200 rpms.it also had 560whp on a mustang dyno with a conservative tune on 93oct.it wont be a secret for long cause i just have to get a twin turbo setup that hits 20lbs of boost by 4000 rpms and then do my final tune.

 

[twicks69]

thanks guys,ive tried that exact gt2871 bb turbo and it hit 20lbs of boost at 5200 rpms.it also had 560whp on a mustang dyno with a conservative tune on 93oct.it wont be a secret for long cause i just have to get a twin turbo setup that hits 20lbs of boost by 4000 rpms and then do my final tune.

You just had one of the most efficient little turbos out there that would have gotten your power and spoolup characteristics required for the application.

Well, the 50-trims are larger than the GT2871R. You will be having slower spoolup than you had on the GT2871R. I would expect the bb-50-trims to spoolup a 1.5L displacement by 4000rpms on an efficient setup. The GT2871R should have seen efficient spoolup around 3600-3900rpms on a 1.5L displacement setup. 17-20psi with a GT2871R would make 580-600+whp without problems. Heck, a GT2860RS (disco potato) can make 580-600whp at 17-20psi on a twin turbo setup and see full boost around 3400-3700rpms.

You might want to look at the rest of the setup, and figure out where your inefficiency lies before upgrading your turbos. You should easily be able to get the GT2871R's to spool by 4K RPMS and do 600whp by 20psi on 93 octane. You should look into your ignition timing map and your camshaft selection along with a more efficient intercooler setup and intake manifold setup.

By retarding your ignition timing before full boost (timing during ramp up boost), you can bring on the turbo easily 400-1000rpms faster.

What are you using for a standalone? If this is too much of a "secret" to post, then just PM me. I don't really care, I am just trying to help you with your problem.