2G need help car will not hold idle

[asg1089]

just updated my mods list b/c i just installed the walbro 255 and the pte 780's. i installed the pump yesterday and the car ran fine after. went to turn the car on today before i did the injectors and it would not hold idle. i figured i would just install the injectors and then figure it out. so injectors went in and now when i turn on the car it will not hold idle. it sounds like it is misfiring badly and it is just bad. the weird thing is that when i take the key out of the ignition and let the car run off of the turbo timer it will hold idle (poorly but it holds). the check engine light is for the rear o2 sensor heater malfunction so dsmlink says. and my oil pressure gauge isn't working because the piece that connects to the sending unit broke. i need help, i need this car working again. any input would be greatly appreciated b/c i'm stumped.

i uploaded log of what is happening. hopefully someone can help me.

DSCF2084.flv video by boggin500ho - Photobucket


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[gofer]

your front o2 sensor is either disconnected or went bad because it isn't cycling in link.

 

[DSMopar]

FPR overrun, welcome to a 255...

 

[asg1089]

my buddy said the same thing about the o2 sensor but it was doing the same yesterday and when i was driving it would cycle.

and i never thought about the fpr being overrun, i will have to look into that.

 

[BlackMount]

FPR overrun, welcome to a 255...

+1

 

[DSM nOOb]

FPR overrun, welcome to a 255...

just buy stm's fpr kit.

 

[asg1089]

also, if the fpr is overrun would it cause the car to run that crappy? in the video i'm holding the rpm's at 2000 and it is just missing and running poorly. or could it possibly be the o2 sensor and the fpr even though while driving the o2 sensor does click over?

thanks for all the replies hahaha i was so excited to get this car done with fuel cut to only have it brake more :-( i need it fixed.

 

[gofer]

... running a 255 you will be overunning your stock fpr but people run 255's all the time on the stock fpr and while it might be "overunning it" from what I'VE SEEN it will still hold the fuel pressure at idle. (i know cause i did it and got away with it for a few weeks)
id try a known good front o2 sensor, but if you do go drop the cash on a afpr/install kit then you couldn't be hurting anything since your going to NEED one anyway.
when you drive it you said it DOES start to cycle? have you tried driving it since the 255 install to see if you can get the front o2 to start cycling even though it idles like ass? i don't see it getting stuck in "open loop" in your log but when the ECU doesn't get any input from the front o2 sensor the car goes into open loop and idles like ass.

 

[asg1089]

i did the pump install on tuesday, when i finished i took the car out for a drive. when the car was cold it idle'd poorly but the car drove. and it drove very nicely actually. i'll post up the log of the cruise after the pump install and you tell me what you think. if it is the o2 sensor are there any that you would suggest?

also, could i possibly try to swap the rear o2 with the front one or are they incompatible?

 

[gofer]

i did the pump install on tuesday, when i finished i took the car out for a drive. when the car was cold it idle'd poorly but the car drove. and it drove very nicely actually. i'll post up the log of the cruise after the pump install and you tell me what you think. if it is the o2 sensor are there any that you would suggest?

also, could i possibly try to swap the rear o2 with the front one or are they incompatible?

not laughing at you but im over here smiling because that front o2 sensor is def. NOT cycling. it should cycle between .2 ~ .8V while idleing and while in closed loop operation. it bounces between these two voltages because the computer takes its input and tries to maintain a 14.7:1 AFR. look at my log, this is how it should cycle.
ECMTuning User Support Forums
it sucks you don't have V3 because you could test the front o2 sensor theory by "locking" it in closed loop operation, cant do it in V2 though.

the front o2 and rear o2 are NOT the same but if you've got a good buddy with a DSM they might have one lying around or they'll let you use theres out of the car? i always buy BOSCH o2 sensors (autozone/kragen) and don't get the universal one IMO.

*EDIT* i just looked at your DTC's from the 255 cruise log and look, your car never goes into closed loop it gets stuck in open loop!!!

by any chance have you installed a WB gauge and cut a wire going to the ECU to log in link lately?

 

[asg1089]

i have a crappy wb, it's the glowshift gauge with a bosch sensor. i have not cut any wires running into the ecu although i found one last night that i guess the guy before me cut and tried to put back together (poorly because it was apart last night). but i put the wire back together for the time being, going to buy a butt connector today to make sure it stays put this time. and i see what you mean by cycling, i figured since it was reading different voltage at dif times it was cycling. guess i'm wrong. i will take a ride to advanced today and get some stuff sorted out. i'm still new to the whole dsmlink thing so i guess i still have to figure some stuff out. hahaha thanks for your help.

 

[gofer]

im not sure what wire you tried "fab'ing" together for the time being but if its a white wire going into the top connector on the ECU then thats your front o2 sensor wire. (pin 76 to be exact) if its cut or not making a good connection obviously the ECU wouldn't be seeing the front o2 sensor cycle.

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[asg1089]

ok so i checked the wires associated with the o2 sensor pins and they were spliced together. i guess the guy who had the car before me wanted to just rig it together for a temp fix. i'm going to try and fix their mess and see if it helps. but i was wondering if i can temporarily rig the fpr. my buddy said that i can just drill a bigger hole in the regulator and that might help. any insight?

 

[gofer]

ok so i checked the wires associated with the o2 sensor pins and they were spliced together. i guess the guy who had the car before me wanted to just rig it together for a temp fix. i'm going to try and fix their mess and see if it helps. but i was wondering if i can temporarily rig the fpr. my buddy said that i can just drill a bigger hole in the regulator and that might help. any insight?

well if that white wire going to pin 76 on the ECU is the wire thats been gheddo rigged then im 50/50 saying your front o2 sensors bad. its a lot cheaper to solder or use a butt connector on the wiring first than it is to drop $80 on a new o2 sensor.
temporary fix to a permanent problem is my .02 cents on the fpr fix. you can form your own opinion but at the least if your trying to save money dig up a 1g turbo fpr and replace the 2g one...
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/340938-modify-stock-fpr.html

 

[asg1089]

ok well i drilled a hole in the 2g fpr and it seemed to help some. the car won't die but it is still surging and misfiring. i have to wait on a ride to the auto parts store so i can't go buy connectors yet. so i guess i will try tonight when my roommate gets home. thanks for everything and i'll let you know how it turns out.

 

[asg1089]

ok so, i fixed up all the wires leading into the ecu so that's not my problem. also i started playing around with the tune of the car and it started to run smoother but not good. it was holding idle but at the same time blowing out tons of blue smoke (oil i believe). so i put it back to the normal tune and i still had the same problem. i noticed that i will def. need a new fpr b/c i did drill the hole in it and it did get better so that is one of my problems. with the o2 sensor one of my friends said he has one lying around his house so i'm going to try that out tomorrow. but now for the weird stuff. the car has a very jumpy idle with the key in the on position, but when i take the key out and let the car run off of the turbo timer the idle smooths out. it is very strange and i'm posting a video of it. but if anyone knows why it does that, that would be great.

here's the video.

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[asg1089]

does anyone have any ideas? i'm kinda stumped on this one. i never knew that the car would run differently based on which ignition source is running.

 

[DSMopar]

i noticed that i will def. need a new fpr b/c i did drill the hole in it and it did get better so that is one of my problems.

You don't need a new FPR you need an adjustable FPR...

 

[gofer]

again, im guessing here but i don't think its the different ignition source thats causing your idle to change. i think it has to do with your car getting stuck in open loop operation while its idling with the key and then once you go off the turbo timer it goes into closed loop operation like it should (once you get a new front o2 sensor)
your running a wideband o2 in the rear o2 sensors location correct?

 

[snowborder714]

Get your car up to operating temp (if possible) and take an idle log and throw it up. From the logs I've looked at, it seems to be functioning, but doesn't look to by cycling. An idle log at temp will be a definite way to tell.

 

[asg1089]

hmm alright i will get the car to operating temp and get a log up today. fixing the wires going into the ecu helped a bit with the o2 sensor voltage b/c last night when i had the car running the o2 was reading 0.4 volts at idle. and i bought an afpr yesterday so it will be here sometime this week hopefully. thanks again everyone.

oh and i have the wideband in the rear and i also still have the stock rear o2 sensor. so i have two rear o2 sensors.

ok so i went and installed the stock pump back into the car to see if i can at least drive the car for now until the afpr gets here. and now with the stock pump the car won't turn over at all. it just cranks and cranks and doesn't turn over. what could be my problem now?

 

[asg1089]

hey again everyone, so as i stated in my last post i reinstalled to stock pump. the car would try to turn over and it might catch for a second but then it will just die. so i figured since i made that hole in the fpr that, that might be my problem. after a lot of hunting i found another stock fpr just to see if the car will start. put the stock one in and now the car will just crank and crank and nothing happens. so i took the new fpr back out and when i did the pressure in the fuel rail pretty much exploded all over me. it was as if the injectors either weren't relieving the pressure or the new fpr wasn't. i need my car running, i can't have it down like this.

also, if you were to blow into either the inlet or outlet hole of a fpr you should be able to get some air through right? that's how the regulator works, once it sees the pressure it wants it bleeds the rest through back to the gas tank. please correct me if i'm wrong. thanks guys this is surely appreciated.

 

[steve]

also, if you were to blow into either the inlet or outlet hole of a fpr you should be able to get some air through right? that's how the regulator works, once it sees the pressure it wants it bleeds the rest through back to the gas tank. please correct me if i'm wrong. thanks guys this is surely appreciated.

You can't create that sort of pressure by blowing on it unless your some sort of Las Vegas keno girl. Your correct that the FPR works by restricting the flow of fuel back to the tank but the valve is closed until the pressure on the inlet exceeds the pressure setting.

I don't know what you were trying to do by drilling the stock FPR but I'm sure you ruined that one.

The fuel rail and everything back to the pump will be pressurized for some time after you turn the pump off. Unless you kill the power to the fuel pump and cranking the engine the injectors aren't going to bleed off enough fuel to drop the pressure.

It's hard to tell in your video but it doesn't look like your throttle body ground is attached to the manifold studs any more. If your running a 2G TPS that's ok but if your using the 1G TPS the IPS on the back of the throttle body need the ground strap to work.

It looks like your idle is 2k and that's too high.

 

[asg1089]

about the drilling a hole in the fpr. i read somewhere that it is a temp fix to help relieve some extra pressure caused by the walbro 255. it actually helped the car a bit and the car was able to stay on by itself. and yes i ruined that fpr by drilling the hole, that is why i found myself another one for the time being.

i believe that i am running a 2g tps but am not sure. could you please explain to me how to check and or how to attach the ground and to where?

and the rpms are at 2000 because that was where i was holding them. the car would instantly die if i let off the gas and 2000 was the only place where it kind of steadied.

oh and i'm no las vegas show girl hahaha but thanks for that input b/c i thought i would at least be able to get some air threw, i thought it was jammed.

 

[steve]

i believe that i am running a 2g tps but am not sure. could you please explain to me how to check and or how to attach the ground and to where?

and the rpms are at 2000 because that was where i was holding them. the car would instantly die if i let off the gas and 2000 was the only place where it kind of steadied.

The 2G TPS has 4 pins where the 1G has 3. The fourth pin (#3) is for the internal IPS that tells the ECU that the throttle is closed. When you put a 1G TB on a 2G you have two choises as to how the IPS signal is derived. The bet solution is to use the 2G TPS so that you don't have to change any wiring. You then set the TPS the same want as on a 2G by measuring the continuity of the internal IPS and turning the TPS while a feeler gauge is between the throttle pulley and the stop (the 1G IPS on a 1G TB) and set it to when it just switches from continuity to no continuity.

It sounded like the car either had cams or wasn't firing on all cylinders.