need help!!! car died and had big trouble starting

[jayson427]

so recently i upgraded my exhaust all the way back and replaced the downstream o2 sensor. since then it has acted a little funny then today it died on the way home and wouldnt start. a few times i shut off my car the other day at the store but it didnt turn off right away, it shuttered then turned off. after i came out the store it didnt want to start normally i had to rev it up then take off. so today i was driving home from work and about 10 miles down the road it started hesitating just a little bit, about a mile further down the road it starting shuttering and hesitating and i pushed the clutch in and it died. i coasted to a gas station but when i came to a stop and tried to start it again, it would not idle up it sputtered at about 300rpm and it would die if i gave it gas. i tried starting it again and did the same thing for about 20 seconds then i shut it off. after that it would only turn over, it would not fire or get spark or fuel it seemed like. i sat for about 20-30 mins then i tried to start it again and it back fired REALLY loud and it smelt funky. i barely made it home after that so im not sure what i need to tend to. im going to do spark plugs and fuel filter. if anyone can help or has had this happen let me know. i only have 3200 miles on my motor and when i got home i looked under the car and right past my down pipe the exhaust was smoking out the flang so im not sure why it did that. first time iv seen the smoke since i upgraded the exhaust.

 

[inthemidst]

From what you are saying .Sounds like you are running too rich.What mods do you have on your car.

 

[jayson427]

lots of mods. je pistons 10.5:1, eagle rods, clevite bearings, unorthadox under drive pulley, toga high volume oil pump, crower stage 2 camshafts springs and retainers, arp head bolts, ferrea valves(standard size), sbi rockers and lifters, port and polished head, obx cam gears. i have a 55mm tb with an obx intake manifold on 19lb injectors with stock fuel rail. im working on getting a wideband but dont currently have one. i have only had this problem since taking of my stock cat and going to a resonator.

 

[inthemidst]

are you sure 100% sure about 19lb injectors.I beleive those are way too small.What are you using to tune your air/fuel ratios.

 

[jayson427]

im positive about the 19lb injectors. i had 24lb when i first had my motor but i could smell the fuel out the exhaust. i talked to gary at howell auto and was told unless i changed the displacement or had a turbo i did not need to go bigger then 19lb with my set up because its n/a. the research i did after i was told that seemed correct that 19lb was good and not to go any bigger. i have nothing to tune my afr which i know is pretty bad : / but other then that it has alot of power.

 

[inthemidst]

If your car ran fine with your current setup.Check your coolant temperature sensor.It might be lying to the computer.In other words its telling the computer that the engine is very cold.Therefore running rich.

 

[jayson427]

If your car ran fine with your current setup.Check your coolant temperature sensor.It might be lying to the computer.In other words its telling the computer that the engine is very cold.Therefore running rich.

i just changed my thermostat from stock to a 160 degree stat since i live in arizona and wanted my motor to run cooler. how do i check the coolant sensor? like check the voltage on it?

i also have an afx tuned ecu

 

[inthemidst]

Can you perform a compreesion test.To make sure you didnt blow the piston rings.I beleive those 19lb injectors are too small.thats why it was fast.You were running lean.

Can you turn thee car on now and tell me what the afx gauge says and at what rpm.

 

[bullettdsm]

I beleive those 19lb injectors are too small.

Our stock injectors are listed as 190's (though they have been known to flow 225).

OP, off course do you have any new cels? Try disconnecting the battery for 10 minutes to reset ECU.

MB

 

[jayson427]

Our stock injectors are listed as 190's (though they have been known to flow 225).

OP, off course do you have any new cels? Try disconnecting the battery for 10 minutes to reset ECU.

MB

I thought stock injectors were 18lb? I have 19lb accel injectors which i get about 250 miles on a full tank of gas (12.5 gallons) with the 24lb I got about 200 miles.

I will check for new codes in the morning then rest the ecu. I only started it once to make sure it would start but I havnt driven it since. It still smelt different too then it did before the problem today.


Inthemidst- I said afx not afr, the afx I have is only a programmed ecu there is no gauge.

so i just checked my cel codes and wasnt to happy. 33 44 37 45 42 43 and 43 in that exact order. it says 43 could be either ignition coil #1 or #2 or misfire or multiple misfire. i have never had my motor act up like it misfired one bit till i changed my exhaust. if anyone could put my in the right direction on where to start would be much appreciated!

 

[bullettdsm]

Ok, first off, where the hell was my brain? I'll tell you where, in Neonland. Was helping somebody in Neonland for awhile and brainfarted into Eclipse WTF

Neon's have 190's while ours are listed as 235's http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=Specifications. I have had a stock set "flowed" by Marron Motorsports and they cam eout to 225's. While another member on 2gnt had RC do a set of his and they flowed at 235. So go figure. I would say that Gary got that info mixed up (the 190's) with Neon injectors.

The reason I want you to reset the ECU is because when you change the exhaustt, you are pulling the O2 sensor plug etc. You may have broken a wire or the O2 sensor (or even accidentally left it unplugged). This may generate the ECU compensating with bad i nformation.

As for the misfires, they could simply be related to the fuel problem (though you may want to check to see if something happened to the spark plug wires etc.).

Hmm, looking at those cels, check to see if the connectors are put on for the coolant temp sensor etc. They are on the same wiring harness end.

MB

 

[jayson427]

its ok mark no worries. so are my 24lb injectors closer to what i need or do i stick with the 19lb injectors? both are accel injectors.

during the install on the exhaust i bought a bosch o2 sensor and there was two white wires one gray and one black. i wasnt sure which white wire needed to go where so i switched them around to what i thought was best at an idle. i had to cut the sensor wire because i had a universal kit and they did not have the oe sensor clip in stock. i know i shouldnt of done that but car was apart and need it back together that day.

 

[bullettdsm]

Yeah, 24lber's would be better.

Certainly concerned about the rewire. Reset ecu and see where you go. Also, did you check to see if all those plugs on that harness are plugged in?

MB

 

[jayson427]

Yeah, 24lber's would be better.

Certainly concerned about the rewire. Reset ecu and see where you go. Also, did you check to see if all those plugs on that harness are plugged in?

MB

so i put the 24lb injectors back in and bought a new o2 sensor with the right connections and hooked it all back up last weekend. today i was driving and it started to misfire, on the way back to my house after i shut it off for an hour it sounded like a lawn mower and i had no power. i got home changed the spark plugs and checked the cel codes. it gave me 43 and 52, 52 says fuel system is to rich now. im completly lost on what injectors i need to run since i had 19lb in before this post and swithed to 24lb and now i have this problem. after i changed the spark plugs it wouldnt start at all, when i give it gas it stops turning over and when i dont give it gas it just keeps turning over. this is my only dd so i need some advice asap. thanks.

My car started this morning and I reset my computer but it went back to how it was last night after driving a few miles.

 

[jayson427]

Does anyone know if I put my 19lb injectors back in and got a walboro 190 if that would make it better or put me in between what I have tried already? Im currently running the stock fuel pump.

 

[Anubis_4_99]

I'm asking out of curiosity and because no one else has asked, have you checked that you haven't coincidently jumped time?

 

[starfish]

sounds like its time to start looking for a new ECU.you might of screwed up the old one with the rewire.

 

[reddragon1]

What do all of the codes mean? Also is it a 420a car? If so I'd check the cam sensor they do funny things.

 

[jayson427]

well i have an A/FX tuned ecu i thought with the clean sheet software it doesnt effect it like that?

and with the timing i dont think it has jumped because it wants to run but it wont get the power. it sputters in and out of hitting power then bogging.

it is a 420a car and i havnt checked the cam sensor, doesnt that take a special tool to check it?

yesterday when i got off work the car would not start. my boss came over and said my spark is really really weak we had to pull the plugs off of the coil and long arch it, then for some reason it started up but it was still no power and sounded horrible. im not going to drive it till i fix it.

what causes weak spark? and how can i check the coil?

 

[reddragon1]

Weak spark can be caused by a weak signal.

 

[Absolut_VIII]

I dont think its your coil. From my experience once it goes bad its toast. Had 2 go on me in my lofetime with a 420a and it was all or nothing. Meaning it would start and fire up, or would fire at all.

 

[jayson427]

i couldnt even get my spark plug to spark off of the valve cover bolt or any other bolt. does anyone know since my motor was just broken in that the valve lashing could need to be adjusted and make it run like this if its off? i have no power and the new plugs i put in arn't foulded and im not getting the normal spark still either its way weak.

 

[jayson427]

There has been almost 400 people check this thread out can someone help just a little? Lol any wiseman out there that can throw some advice my way. I had to buy a new truck since I have no clue where to begin. Thanks again if anyone can help.

 

[Absolut_VIII]

If your not getting spark, vlave lashing would be a secondary priority in my opinion. You need to figure out what's going on with the spark intially before you move one. Have you checked out the parts store for a new coil pack. They are kinda pricey at around $100+ but I would try picking one up and throw it in. See if it solves your problem, if your still not getting spark, your going to need to trace your wiring, checking for any breaks in the lines and check to make sure your grounds are connected.

 

[dr1665]

I don't get over here very much anymore and, if you've had Bullett in here troubleshooting, I don't know how much more help I can be, but I'll give it a shot.

A) Doesn't matter how built your all-motor 10.5:1CR 420A is. Unless you've had a wideband on it and confirmed you need more fuel, you do not need any fuel system mods beyond stock. Period.

I ran a fully built 420A - air filter to muffler - with the AFX/R ECU and a 100% bone stock fuel system. Never put it on the dyno. Never put it on a wideband (though I did purchase one to go with a never-happened MSnS install). Never got any ping unless I lugged the engine below 3000rpm on days when ambient was over 100F.

I also got 400 miles per tank around town, and touched 500 miles on many a highway tank. You have too much injector. Either you got scammed on the injectors your bought, or you have other electrical issues.

B) You probably also have electrical issues. Grab your multimeter, a couple paper clips, and a friend. This is time consuming stuff, but it ain't hard.

CLT = Coolant Temp Sensor - If the car runs fine cold, but has trouble starting once it's good and warmed up, the CLT should be your first stop. Make sure you get the one the ECU uses to adjust fuel trims - NOT the one for the gauge in the cluster. It's maybe US$20 at the local parts house.

CMP/CKP = CaM Position, CranK Position sensors - Disconnect your coil pack and fuel injectors. Grab your multimeter and set it to VDC (DC volts). You're going to be backprobing these sensors at the ECU for starters.

Once you know where the ground and signal leads from these sensors enter the ECU harness (hint: hit the 2GNT wiki for ECU pinouts), you will insert a paperclip into the backside of the main ECU connector where these wires connect to the ECU. Touch or clip your meter leads to the paperclips and crank the engine (or have a friend crank it).

While cranking you want to see an alternating 5VDC on your meter. Remember, your cams turn at 1/2 crank speed, so you will see 5-0-5-0-5-0 and so on, but the numbers will be flashing pretty quick when you check the CKP. I suggest starting with the CMP because it's easier to see.

If CMP/CKP check out at the ECU, then the car should start unless you've lost compression or have fueling issues. The ECU needs to see BOTH these signals or it kills the coil and/or fuel pump to save the engine from what it thinks is timing belt failure.

If you see signal at the ECU, your next step is to is to thoroughly inspect the wire harness under the intake pipe, next to the EGR tube, for heat damage. If you didn't already know about the 420A EGR pipe melting wire harnesses and causing random stalling, now you know.

If you do NOT see signal, now you need to backprobe those sensors at the sensors themselves. The CMP is pretty easy, so start with it first. The CKP is a bit trickier, since it's located down low on the back of the block.

There's probably more I'm forgetting, but it's been about four years since I've owned or worked on a 420A. If sh*t hits the fan, the guy with my old built engine is still in the valley and might be willing to sell for less than a grand...