My hotpiped E85 + 16G + W/I results

[UofACATS]

Log

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E85
24.8psi
18º timing
~11.3 AFR
no knock
no boost drop-off
17-psi adjustable wastegate actuator, no MBC.


I've logged:
40.4lbs/min
~350whp 0% DL
60.9 - 80.8mph = 1.67sec
0-59.6 = 3.86sec
weight: 3165 w. driver


Dyno'd
310whp, 329wtq
Mustang dyno, corrected numbers. 5,500 DA
no track times (work)




BOOST CURVE

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[TSIMonsteR]

whats the highest AITs you've logged with this setup? How much meth do you use per tank of e85 on average?

I've been toying with this idea on the talon with something like an hta68 or possibly even larger.

 

[LiquidX]

What is your W/M ratio, nozzle/s size, pre turbo injecton?

 

[UofACATS]

whats the highest AITs you've logged with this setup?

I actually don't log IATs currently. I did run SD for a bit, logging 120º IATs if I recall correctly, maybe it was 140º.. I'll have to pull up an old log. My laptop battery is just clinging on to life so it's difficult even viewing them. For awhile I ran NO injection on E85, just to confirm a suspicion that I could. I hit 18psi and 19º timing with no knock. I got up to 21psi and 19º timing before I would get the CEL flash, set at 1 degree. So the highest I saw was 280º, again from my fading old memory. Another thing left undone was installing a CAI on this setup, I was running 120º intake temps with a typical open air filter intake.

How much meth do you use per tank of e85 on average?

None, it's all water. As for that, I have a one gallon tank that I keep topped off. I don't want any tanks to run dry.. I probably run through a tank of E85 before a gallon of water, although that's the nature of my vehicle use. When I ran it recently on the roadcourse I used quite a bit of water, filling it after every session.

What is your W/M ratio, nozzle/s size, pre turbo injecton?

100% water / 0% meth
615ml nozzle
one injection point, 6" after the turbo outlet.



Some notes. I ran 100% water because at the amount I was injecting (615ml), it provided the most amount of cooling. The next step in the car would have been another 615ml nozzle and move to a 50/50 mix. I feel like that would've provided the best results.. and perhaps even 100% meth. This is because I'm running E85. Would I have felt confident about spiking higher than 26psi on my stock longblock 7-bolt, I would also have considered pre-turbo injection, as means to extend the compressor map a bit at 30psi.

The car runs great around town with the higher charge temps, on most drives it doesn't see any water. The AEM W/I is set to start at ~10psi and full at ~20psi, I never got around to tweeking those numbers but I also was injecting a small enough amount to never bog, or otherwise notice the W/I was occurring, aside from the power.

The car is getting parted, I'm going 2g auto. I might slap the W/I / 16g setup on that car and get a bit more "experimental." I feel like with the results I've gotten here, a little better-thought-out system would give very impressive results.

 

[LiquidX]

I would consider running up to a max size of a 2 gph nozzle pre turbo. It will help cooling and will bump up the efficiency of the turbo as well.

 

[turboglenn]

100% water / 0% meth
615ml nozzle
one injection point, 6" after the turbo outlet.



Some notes. I ran 100% water because at the amount I was injecting (615ml), it provided the most amount of cooling. The next step in the car would have been another 615ml nozzle and move to a 50/50 mix. I feel like that would've provided the best results.. and perhaps even 100% meth. This is because I'm running E85. Would I have felt confident about spiking higher than 26psi on my stock longblock 7-bolt, I would also have considered pre-turbo injection, as means to extend the compressor map a bit at 30psi.

The car runs great around town with the higher charge temps, on most drives it doesn't see any water. The AEM W/I is set to start at ~10psi and full at ~20psi, I never got around to tweeking those numbers but I also was injecting a small enough amount to never bog, or otherwise notice the W/I was occurring, aside from the power.

The car is getting parted, I'm going 2g auto. I might slap the W/I / 16g setup on that car and get a bit more "experimental." I feel like with the results I've gotten here, a little better-thought-out system would give very impressive results.

it's cool to see others experimenting with this system on daily driven cars as wel, I did this a few years vback as you may rmemebr and although they were rather mixed resutls, for the most part they were very good

as for what i've bolded in your text..I had GREAT results on both my car and another forum memebers 16g car with running pre turbo injection for enahcngingthe maps

Probably the most effective thing i saw as you noted was the dramatic change in smooth throttle transistion and cruising behaviour siwth the higher IAT's under normal conditions

also, i seems to have better results (which i hacve no idea why) when running a couple smaller nozzles instead of one large one - i would guess it's the fact that samller amounts of liquid from variouse sources can be dissipated faster than a large amount from one nozzle. but that's just theory for now

Maybe i missed it in your thread (my head is a little out of whack from a rough week still) but do you plan on keeping the car hot-iped on the new set or are you going back to running a cooler at all?

 

[UofACATS]

better results ..run a couple smaller nozzles instead of one large one

This is exactly what the tuner said who was operating the dyno. Also mentioned he likes to add some amount of meth to the injection (I was 100% water), even if the car doesn't call for it.

do you plan on keeping the car hot-piped on the new set up or are you going back to running a cooler

I'm keeping the hot-pipe setup to run on the new car I left too much on the table here, and I'm too much of a believer to be done ..yet.

Having said that, I'm picking up an ETS beast of a FMIC too, my new build will be more drag oriented.

 

[forcefed86]

Sounds fun!

A few friends have gone this route as well with v6, v8 setups. You also have to remember that with e85 your IAT's will drop quite a bit in the intake runners as the e85 mist clashes with the hot air charge. A nice digital logging EGT setup may make a better tuning tool with your setup.

IMHO you "hot air" guys should use larger turbos. You automatically gain response time/press drop by eliminating the IC. If you used a larger turbo you could run less boost making the same power with lower IAT's. Hx35 would be a nice size.

 

[UofACATS]

IMHO you "hot air" guys should use larger turbos. You automatically gain response time/press drop by eliminating the IC. If you used a larger turbo you could run less boost making the same power with lower IAT's.

Right but we can also run smaller turbos, make more useable power at a lower RPM, and not suffer as much boost drop off at redline. With a 16G, an additional 1-2 psi is worth gold. (One of my regrets here is not running a SD tune, which would free an additional ~1psi on the top end.) A larger turbo, capable of sustaining much higher airflow, doesn't miss the 2psi pressure drop of an intercooler. It is also more efficient at 30psi than an evo3 turbo at 28psi (IATs) The evo3 turbo is relatively inefficient. So yes hot-piping could free up some power on a big turbo, I just don't think it's worth it. Just turn the MBC to negate the pressure loss, and enjoy low IATs with a good core.


This thread isn't really a "hey check out how valuable hotpiping is.." It's just my experience/results. While I think there's good stuff here, I wasn't pushing my hotpiped setup enough to warrant the hotpipe setup in the first place. Get my 25psi up to 30 and then we might see some differences. In fact, that sounds like a decent experiment..