My first autocross of the season

[123abc]

Was at the tech school here in Winona, MN. I went to both the test n tune saturday and the points even sunday. I'll start of by saying overall on the weekend, I started my first lap with a 71, and my fastest was a 59. It was a very fun layout, I'll post up some pics if I can find some. I was placed into SM because of my intrax lowering springs, fmic, and exhaust. I placed about middle of the bunch in my group, getting 3rd only to a stripped and caged older vw and an rx8. Then came a mustang and a civic hatch I believe.

Some things I learned about the Laser. She sure loves to plow the front end. I was on generic street radials because I'm poor. I lowered the air pressure up front and it helped a bit, but I didn't lower it any more. I was just having too much fun to get too serious. I believe if I were to lower the fronts down a bit more, I could really get it to rotate better. Maybe time for a sway bar?

The car ran beautifully. No complaints at all. Next one will be June 22nd, so I got some some stuff to do before then.

 

[talonTSIDriver]

Was at the tech school here in Winona, MN. I went to both the test n tune saturday and the points even sunday. I'll start of by saying overall on the weekend, I started my first lap with a 71, and my fastest was a 59. It was a very fun layout, I'll post up some pics if I can find some. I was placed into SM because of my intrax lowering springs, fmic, and exhaust. I placed about middle of the bunch in my group, getting 3rd only to a stripped and caged older vw and an rx8. Then came a mustang and a civic hatch I believe.

Some things I learned about the Laser. She sure loves to plow the front end. I was on generic street radials because I'm poor. I lowered the air pressure up front and it helped a bit, but I didn't lower it any more. I was just having too much fun to get too serious. I believe if I were to lower the fronts down a bit more, I could really get it to rotate better. Maybe time for a sway bar?

The car ran beautifully. No complaints at all. Next one will be June 22nd, so I got some some stuff to do before then.

Congrats!!! Glad to see you made it out there. I hope that June 22nd auto-x is the DSM Auto-X Shootout in Marshfield!

Lets see some pictures!!!

 

[tsiboosted]

Glad to see some other DSMs making it out to AutoX events now. I want to see the pics when you get a chance to get them up.

A sway bar would/might help with your understeer. But you would need to address your tire issue first before you go that route. Tires to me are 90% of raod racing/autoXing. Get some better tires before you dive into upgrading your supsension.

 

[123abc]

I honestly don't have the money for tires. I'm taking it one day at a time.

The June 22nd is in West Salem, WI. Sorry Andy, I want to try and make it to every points event in my region. Consistancy is key, right?

 

[talonTSIDriver]

For low speeds (under 50mph), tires are nearly everything with suspension being not so much.

For higher speeds (over 80mph), its then when your suspension starts to do its job and will start to make a bigger difference than the tire.

 

[tsiboosted]

For low speeds (under 50mph), tires are nearly everything with suspension being not so much.

For higher speeds (over 80mph), its then when your suspension starts to do its job and will start to make a bigger difference than the tire.

There you go. AutoX speeds are rarely over 80 mph (depending on the layout), but usually do not exceed that lilmit. I understand not being able to afford tires right now. But if you are going to continue to AutoX your car, the money you save for your next mod
should be tires. Not suspension parts right now.

 

[123abc]

I'll try to save up for tires. This isn't something I can commit to as I can't afford the increase in cost.

Just going for seat time mostly.

 

[talonTSIDriver]

Just going for seat time mostly.

 

[ajinvista]

Cool, my first event was this weekend also, first time in 15 years(same car). Had the same results, pushed like a pig, lowered the tire pressure up front, even softend the dampning up front, and stiffened up the right rear corner a few clicks, plus the ST rear bar. Course was mostly left turns. I hear ya on being poor, racing does that. I had to do this on Toyo Proxies m+s tires, they were screamin for mercy. I dropped 1/10 every lap for the first 3 runs (only a 30+ sec fast course), 4th run I dropped .6 sec, I started to realize that sometime you have to go slow to go FAST, and also BREATH.
I ran ESP but in the street tire group, damn handicapping. Would have finished 3rd w/o it, ended up 8th out of 15. The event ended up having 120 drivers, it was an excellent time. I know I can hang with the best if I can score some tires, and something other then a, looks good to me alignment will help alot!

 

[123abc]

My fwd was bad enough with plowing, I can't imagine 200-300 more lbs with the drivetrain weight.

 

[ajinvista]

I think I'm going to have to go back to the stock front springs, and some sticky tires. The front is sprung so hard I get positive camber. I also think I need to lower it a little, it rides real high.
Event in nebraska region on 6-15-08 if I can't find one before that, close. Sorry about hijacking this one, I'll post my own after the next event and some more tweaks.

 

[123abc]

I checked my front camber with a level and a tape measure and I got about a half inch on both sides so I'm sittin good. No noticable tire roll-over, real good tire wear too. I was afraid my alignment would be all off because of the lowering springs but it's not bad.

I'm working on getting a rear sway bar real soon, before the next event. I'm real excited to give that a try. I also added my own rear strut tower bar out of a piece of angle iron I found in the back shed.

The strut tower bars really makes my 1g fwd feel much better than my Avenger. Feels so much stiffer, like the suspension is actually doing it's job instead of the chassis flexing with em. I'm real pumped to see what she will feel like with the rear bar.

 

[talonTSIDriver]

I checked my front camber with a level and a tape measure and I got about a half inch on both sides so I'm sittin good. No noticable tire roll-over, real good tire wear too. I was afraid my alignment would be all off because of the lowering springs but it's not bad.

I'm working on getting a rear sway bar real soon, before the next event. I'm real excited to give that a try. I also added my own rear strut tower bar out of a piece of angle iron I found in the back shed.

The strut tower bars really makes my 1g fwd feel much better than my Avenger. Feels so much stiffer, like the suspension is actually doing it's job instead of the chassis flexing with em. I'm real pumped to see what she will feel like with the rear bar.

If you have not got an alignment since you have lowered your car, I would highly recommend it.

 

[123abc]

If you have not got an alignment since you have lowered your car, I would highly recommend it.

When I bought the thing the previous dumbass had cut the springs reeeaaalllly low. I put in the intrax springs and been running it since with no weird issues.


However, that doesn't change the fact that I should and will take it in soon for an alignment.

 

[talonTSIDriver]

an alignment can sometimes be a very good "mod."

I've seen before people stick loads of money into coilovers and sway bars and the car still handle like crap. then they get an alignment, and the car is a complete different animal.

 

[Pro3racer]

Bah, my car handles just fine after the coilovers and swaybars!

Get an alignment, i would have got one if I wasn't selling my car.

 

[talonTSIDriver]

Bah, my car handles just fine after the coilovers and swaybars!

Get an alignment, i would have got one if I wasn't selling my car.

I dont get people that spend more than $300+ on suspension but skip the alignment. an alignment is the most important part.

If I had the option to have $1000 coil-overs or a good aggressive race alignment, I'd take the alignment any day.

 

[123abc]

I do understand why it's so important Andy. Gotta make the most of your tire's contact patch under hard cornering, right?

 

[Dallas J]

Maybe when talking about going from stock bits/street tires, but when you get to the higher levels of autox competition suspension balance is everything.

I went from worn 245 R3SO3's to new 275 V710s and was slower. The stickier tires just showed the flaws in the 550/450 springs with RM front and rear bars. After jumping to 700/450 springs I had massive snap oversteer issues. Then I went back to the stock rear bar and holy shit, the car became a monster.

For low speeds (under 50mph), tires are nearly everything with suspension being not so much.

For higher speeds (over 80mph), its then when your suspension starts to do its job and will start to make a bigger difference than the tire.

 

[cmspaz]

For low speeds (under 50mph), tires are nearly everything with suspension being not so much.

For higher speeds (over 80mph), its then when your suspension starts to do its job and will start to make a bigger difference than the tire.

I'm going to go ahead and toss out my disagreement on this one... Tightening up the suspension has this tendency to reduce body roll, and in autox, even at low speeds, you can really run through most of the suspension's range.

Reducing body roll, to a certain extent, will limit loss of grip on the inside tires, and will help prevent the outside tires from exceeding their grip, increasing traction, and therefore cornering ability.

I'm not arguing that tires are unimportant, because let's face it, if you've got sh*tty tires, no amount of suspension mods are going to keep you from plowing off course.

 

[talonTSIDriver]

I am going to stick with my statement. Mainly because i took nearly those exact words out of the suspension God himself, Carroll Smith. I believe its in his book "tune to win"

basically what I am saying, for auto-X, a good tire will do FAR more than any aftermarket suspension could ever do (over stock).

 

[kwheeler]

I agree with TalonTSIDriver, the first "mod" should be a real good set of tires and a race alignment. (Do the alignment first).
Not having the money for that I'd stick with the lower front tire pressures (not so low they roll over on the sidewall) and then add pressure to the rears until it starts to rotate for you.
A rear bar would help here as well but thats money and should wait until after a good set of tires and a good set of adjustable shocks.

I run a Datsun 240Z with a V8 engine and went the route of modding suspension before getting good tires. I learned the hard way that suspension upgrades will bring out the weaknesses in your tires before improving your handling very much. Running for a while on good tires will help you determine exactly where the suspension is lacking, it's very difficult to do that when you're running on marginal rubber.

Always remember the most effective mod is to the ability of the driver. There is absolutely no substitute for seat time.

kwheeler