My Engine Build

[DSMer541]

so after blowing a balance shaft bearing and throwing metal around inside my engine, i decided to tare the whole thing apart and rebuild the engine to handle more power and boost. The block is in the machine shop beeing bored and stuffed with new Wossner pistons from MapPerformance, they are 8:1 compression and just as stong as Wiseco HD pistons. Also some Eagle H-beam rods , ACL race bearings and a balance shaft delete kit from FFWD. This is just the begining as i still have the head, turbo, and tranny to upgrade. As for the head i have planned ,the ports will stay OEM size , im getting behive springs with either kelford 272 cams or Forced Performance cams,S.S valves and bronze guides, sitting on a MLS head gasket. sugestions on valves with these pistons and MLS gasket and 272 cams,do i need oversize?
Im still not sure what turbo to go with yet...i would like to be able to boost in low RPM since this is gonna be a dd with some track use. im thinkin about a 18g,20g or a T04B 50 trim....but im open to sugetions.I have a FMIC from punishment wich i guess is efficient to about 650cfm,whats the biggest turbo i can run on this intercooler? Also i know im gonna get alot of crap about this one but iv decided to keep my SAFC and logger and go with a keydiver chip instead of Link, i know there is no timing control but my compression is gonna be really close to stock and the comp ratio can be added in to chip...i dont know anything about tuning so this route will be easier, and im not gonna be switching fuels or anything so i dont think i need Link.
I should have the block back from the shop soon and will post another pic but this is what I got so far......any feedback on where to go from here? should i pick the turbo before i do the head ? or viseversa.

 

[92AWDHX40]

The fmic should be ok, and what are your goals, for your build.

 

[BogusSVO]

not to bad a set up, Do not forget arp head studs, with your cams, you may as well opt for the +1mm valves.
IMHP, I would not run bronze guides on the street, the wear quicker, and you also need more valve to guide clearance.
with the MLS you plan on using, be very carful about the deck surface on bothe the head and block.
I hope the block is getting bored/honed with a torque plate.

Also have the bottom end spin balancend, rods,pistons,crank,flywheel, and balancer. the last few grams that will be balanced out will make a diffrence.

 

[oVaBoost]

Hey hows it goin you should do a 16g or 18g if your still keeping afc. I really think you should get link and get a 50 trim that would be sweet but afc can only do so much and you cant go bigger than 550cc injector or you will start to run into problems.

 

[oVaBoost]

not to bad a set up, Do not forget arp head studs, with your cams, you may as well opt for the +1mm valves.
IMHP, I would not run bronze guides on the street, the wear quicker, and you also need more valve to guide clearance.
with the MLS you plan on using, be very carful about the deck surface on bothe the head and block.
I hope the block is getting bored/honed with a torque plate.

Also have the bottom end spin balancend, rods,pistons,crank,flywheel, and balancer. the last few grams that will be balanced out will make a diffrence.

You dont need bigger valves stock will do fine there good for 400hp and you wont be close to that with your tune and your not go to rev pass stock to like 8800. the block is at the machine shop he said so im sure its getting built right thats what people at the machine shops do for living.

 

[DSMer541]

hey ovaboost., wuts up.........well as far as the afc goes it can accually handle anysize injector as long as your chip is programmed for it. without a chip it can only handle 650cc on a stock ecu....so for intstance if i get 850cc injectors and a chip to suport them the afc will have no problem.

i do have ARP head studs and the block is at a pretty reputable shop so i hope they balance it but im sure they plan on it. i will let them know i want it done just to be safe. thanx

 

[xXx_BIG_xXx]

Seems like a good build you got going. And with the SAFC you can tune up to 650cc injectors then you start running into problems not 550cc

EDIT: you beat me to that point.

 

[DSMer541]

You dont need bigger valves stock will do fine there good for 400hp and you wont be close to that with your tune and your not go to rev pass stock to like 8800. the block is at the machine shop he said so im sure its getting built right thats what people at the machine shops do for living.

i do plan on making over 400 hp....thats why i bought forged pistons and rods.

 

[DSMer541]

The fmic should be ok, and what are your goals, for your build.

i would like to hit 450hp and rev to 8k.


any sugestions on the turbo? besides a 16g... im torn between a 20g or a T04b 50 trim. iv considerd a holset but thats too much piecing together, unless i can find one ready to bolt up.

 

[BogusSVO]

You dont need bigger valves stock will do fine there good for 400hp and you wont be close to that with your tune and your not go to rev pass stock to like 8800. the block is at the machine shop he said so im sure its getting built right thats what people at the machine shops do for living.

The reason I said to get the 1mm is he is planing on getting new valves to begin with. The cost is not any more, so may as well.

NOT all machine shops are equiped the same, I know a few that still use machines made back in the 1960's.
Do you think a machine design back then to mill a head or block for a SBC, will provide the finish needed for a 4G63 with a MLS headgasket?

It is good the shop you chose has a good reputation, Thats always a good start, BUT how familier are they with import blocks?
Did you ask to have the block milled for a MLS head gasket? or the head?
Did you ask if they would toque plate bore/hone your block? Not all shops have the toque plate for every engine. They are rather expensive, most start around $300.00

As far as "being sure its getting built right thats what people at the machine shops do for living"
I would not be so quick to assume that. I have been working in machine shops since 1992, I have met some that are real sharp, and some that are just idiots, but for the most part, they just go stright by the specs, witch is fine for a bone stock rebuild, BUT when you want to hop it up a bit, you have to go past the stock specs, beacuse the engine is not intended for stock use.
If you read the his parts list, Rods, good pistions, a set of cams, and a few other things, this is not a build for Moms GSX to go grab a gallon of milk.
ALso this is not at the other end of the spectrum, some 1200 40psi with a 200 shot of nitrous.
The machine shop that is doing the work has to understand what the engine is going to be used for.
With out that knowlage the machine shop will default to thinking it is just another bone stock rebuild. Some things that need to be checked will not.
You could end up with a bore finish thats a little tight for forged pistions, or a surface finsh for steel rings, and not a crome-moly.

So you have a basic understanding of machine work, Here is a good tech artical written By a DSMT Wiseman Big Woo.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-engine-fuel/303225-engine-machine-work-explained.html

Heres a few links I had posted on machining procudures of machine work....

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...face-4g63t-cylinder-head-mls-head-gasket.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/341218-how-change-valve-guides-4g63t-head.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/341288-why-have-your-valves-back-cut.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/341209-4g63t-valve-spring-info.html

 

[oVaBoost]

The reason I said to get the 1mm is he is planing on getting new valves to begin with. The cost is not any more, so may as well.

NOT all machine shops are equiped the same, I know a few that still use machines made back in the 1960's.
Do you think a machine design back then to mill a head or block for a SBC, will provide the finish needed for a 4G63 with a MLS headgasket?

It is good the shop you chose has a good reputation, Thats always a good start, BUT how familier are they with import blocks?
Did you ask to have the block milled for a MLS head gasket? or the head?
Did you ask if they would toque plate bore/hone your block? Not all shops have the toque plate for every engine. They are rather expensive, most start around $300.00

As far as "being sure its getting built right thats what people at the machine shops do for living"
I would not be so quick to assume that. I have been working in machine shops since 1992, I have met some that are real sharp, and some that are just idiots, but for the most part, they just go stright by the specs, witch is fine for a bone stock rebuild, BUT when you want to hop it up a bit, you have to go past the stock specs, beacuse the engine is not intended for stock use.
If you read the his parts list, Rods, good pistions, a set of cams, and a few other things, this is not a build for Moms GSX to go grab a gallon of milk.
ALso this is not at the other end of the spectrum, some 1200 40psi with a 200 shot of nitrous.
The machine shop that is doing the work has to understand what the engine is going to be used for.
With out that knowlage the machine shop will default to thinking it is just another bone stock rebuild. Some things that need to be checked will not.
You could end up with a bore finish thats a little tight for forged pistions, or a surface finsh for steel rings, and not a crome-moly.

So you have a basic understanding of machine work, Here is a good tech artical written By a DSMT Wiseman Big Woo.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-engine-fuel/303225-engine-machine-work-explained.html

Heres a few links I had posted on machining procudures of machine work....

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...face-4g63t-cylinder-head-mls-head-gasket.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/341218-how-change-valve-guides-4g63t-head.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/341288-why-have-your-valves-back-cut.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/341209-4g63t-valve-spring-info.html

Sorry I dont need that stuff on how to machine but thanks anyways. But he just listed mods and didnt say how much hp he was wanting to push and then he listed it above... but he has his block at a pretty good machine shop according to him but good your letting him know what to watch out for but the shop hes using should plain and do what you do to heads. Its pretty sweet you do manchine work.

But A 50 trim well do great for what your looking for horsepower and spool time. 400hp is alot for a dsm as far as weight goes compare to hp but will be fun! to bad you couldnt do aem ems or link that would be even better get the most out of the setup.

 

[DSMer541]

hey thanx bogussvo....that is all great info and i will talk to them on monday, hopefully they havent already started, tho i have a fealing they did....i told the guy that i am going to be using a metal head gasket and he told me as long as the surface is still flat i shoudent have a problem and he doesnt need to re surface it but i dont know that i trust his word on that.....i would trust what u guys say over anyone else....thanx again.

 

[Mr PopUps]

I run a Frank 1 on a SMIC (dont ask ). At least last time the car ran, in the process of rebuilding it now. thats a TD-06 exhaust w/10º clip and Garrett 50 trim comp. 660cfm. Might as well get a FP Green if youre going to do that.

 

[DSMer541]

so if i go with a 50 trim , will that be max my intercooler can handle before pessure drop?
what size injectors should i use on a 50 trim? i was thinking 850 or 950 FIC...i have a 255 walbro and a fuel lab FPR. i use 93 octane gas from chevron.

 

[Night479]

so if i go with a 50 trim , will that be max my intercooler can handle before pessure drop?
what size injectors should i use on a 50 trim? i was thinking 850 or 950 FIC...i have a 255 walbro and a fuel lab FPR. i use 93 octane gas from chevron.

dont watse your time with the 50 or the fp green (both good turbos) but i would go with a gt 30. it will be much easier to reach your goals amd the turbo will run better at higher rpms.

 

[DSMer541]

dont watse your time with the 50 or the fp green (both good turbos) but i would go with a gt 30. it will be much easier to reach your goals amd the turbo will run better at higher rpms.

but i still want to reach boost before 4000 rpm and those turbos dont even reach full boost till after 5000rpm unless im wrong. I will consider it though. im looking to make a good street car , i wont be redlineing it everytime i drive it, iv just always considered those turbos to be more race oriented than street turbos. but if you could direct me to a site that can give me better info on the gt30 that would be great, iv looked at forced performance and ams but they dont really talk about it as a street turbo, ........plus i think that turbo flows more than my intercooler can handle, then i wasted money on the intercooler and have to get another one.

 

[oVaBoost]

If you want a good street turbo a 50 trim will be great no need for a bigger turbo on the street unless your wanna beat 10 sec cars then might as well go 35R but will need a very good tune and parts to go along with. a gt30 would reach full boost later than a 50 trim some say a 50 trim will spool almost as fast as a evo3 16g and would get the power and torque faster than you would with a gt30.

 

[ApexVIII]

but i still want to reach boost before 4000 rpm and those turbos dont even reach full boost till after 5000rpm unless im wrong. I will consider it though. im looking to make a good street car , i wont be redlineing it everytime i drive it, iv just always considered those turbos to be more race oriented than street turbos. but if you could direct me to a site that can give me better info on the gt30 that would be great, iv looked at forced performance and ams but they dont really talk about it as a street turbo, ........plus i think that turbo flows more than my intercooler can handle, then i wasted money on the intercooler and have to get another one.

then get a HX35 or an HX40

i am hitting 20psi right at 4k on my HX35

 

[DSMer541]

If you want a good street turbo a 50 trim will be great no need for a bigger turbo on the street unless your wanna beat 10 sec cars then might as well go 35R but will need a very good tune and parts to go along with. a gt30 would reach full boost later than a 50 trim some say a 50 trim will spool almost as fast as a evo3 16g and would get the power and torque faster than you would with a gt30.

thanx ovaboost....you have had some great points and been alot of help....i think i am going to go with a T04B 50 trim....i can get one from MAPerformance for like $750 in a bolt on housing.....and is capable of 450+ hp...that will be good enough for me

 

[Mr PopUps]

If you want a good street turbo a 50 trim will be great no need for a bigger turbo on the street unless your wanna beat 10 sec cars then might as well go 35R but will need a very good tune and parts to go along with. a gt30 would reach full boost later than a 50 trim some say a 50 trim will spool almost as fast as a evo3 16g and would get the power and torque faster than you would with a gt30.

Even with the clipping on the exhaust side i was hitting full boost at about 3500 with a 6cm housing. It has a lot to do with porting and the exhaust you run.

thanx ovaboost....you have had some great points and been alot of help....i think i am going to go with a T04B 50 trim....i can get one from MAPerformance for like $750 in a bolt on housing.....and is capable of 450+ hp...that will be good enough for me

Stick with a Mitsu based turbo, its better in the long run. Better yet, the Forced Perf turbos with the Garrett CHRA look really good, and FP has been around almost as long as BR has.

A 20G is capable of 450hp.....

 

[oVaBoost]

if you get a 50trim make sure its BB

 

[BGRIPTP]

if you get a 50trim make sure its BB

Its really not worth the extra money to go ball bearing with just a 50 trim.

 

[oVaBoost]

Even with the clipping on the exhaust side i was hitting full boost at about 3500 with a 6cm housing. It has a lot to do with porting and the exhaust you run.

exhaust matters when its under 3" and you have a no good mani and o2 housing alongest its 3" and you have a good flowing header or a ported 2g mani with a good o2 housing. A 50trim should hit full boost under 4k at like 22psi with your mods or depending where you want to leave you boost mark as psi if you want to run 25 then its going to be under 4500rpm but thats still nuts and will throw the power out fast. Dont do a 20g there just not as bad ass as a 50trim trust me you will love that trubo will i know i will since thats my next setup and i have a buddy that used to have a 50trim at 22psi it was set and man that thing was awesome for power and get up and go this was on a 92 awd with dsmlink and the tune was okay but if it was tuned better it would out hit 11's but ran a flat 12's in the 1/4mile he would hit full boost right under 4k some dsms with not alot of mods hit full boost under 4300k at like 20-21psi but just look around about the 50trim and its power bands and what RPM it will hit full boost at its all different with the mods upon what people have in there car. but with a full built motor and good tune it should be under 4000rpm range.

 

[oVaBoost]

ball bearing will be better in the long run from what i heard.

 

[EVO_THREE]

Forced Perfomance do a 50 trim in BB - it's an fp3150.

Pricey - nearly as much as a 3052, but bolt on in a good housing..

It's said to match a 3052 in power to 22psi, but with better spool.

Forced Performance Turbochargers: DSM FP3150 Ball Bearing Turbocharger