2G My 95' Talon AWD clutch is heavy

[TheDude236]

Finally got my 95' Talon today and boy is it fun! Unfortunately, something is up with the clutch.
What happens is this: The clutch pushes down super hard, and releases waaaaay to close to the floor when shifting, like, almost instantly when you start to release the clutch, it shifts into gear. My dad killed the car the first time he shifted, and instantly said it was probably the master/slave cylinder, but from what I have been reading its some kind of fork near the transmission. I'm ultra confused and just need a master's help on this one. Thanks guys!

 

[pauleyman]

Is the car modded? Could have a very stiff clutch in it

 

[TheDude236]

It has had the clutch replaced, not sure which one, i’ll have to ask.
Also, its not the fluids, just checked and re-filled them all.

 

[pauleyman]

Again, is the car modded? If so it very likely has a heavier clutch.

 

[AWD-Tony]

Pauley is asking if the car is modded. In most cases when cars are modded, you need a stronger clutch that can hold the power. Most aftermarket clutches will be heavier than stock.

As for it engaging close to the floor, there could be one or more issues with the cars. Could be simple as an adjustment but here’s a couple of video on clutch adjustment.

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[TheDude236]

Gotcha. No, this car is practically stock except for a new BOV and some coilovers. Thanks for the links, I'll be sure to update this as i work on this issue over the next couple days.

 

[AWD-Tony]

When you get a chance, take a look at the clutch slave and see where the clutch fork is positioned in the window. Take a pic and post it. Something like this

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[TheDude236]

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[TheDude236]

unfortunately thats about all I could get without lifting the car. Also discovered some leaking oil but thats besides the point.

 

[AWD-Tony]

Hard to see in that angle. The fork should sit in the center or slightly to the right. Also attached the wrong video

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[TheDude236]

From what we could see, it was sitting correctly. I plan on putting it on jacks soon so i can link some more pictures then. I also plan on rebuilding the master cylinder soon because it needs to be rebuilt. What else might solve the problem?

 

[AWD-Tony]

Not too much left. Pedal, hydraulics, fork, pivot ball, pressure plate, flywheel. Just start with the basics. If the master needs rebuilt, rebuild it and adjust it properly.

 

[TheDude236]

Perfect, thanks a bunch!

 

[pauleyman]

From what we could see, it was sitting correctly. I plan on putting it on jacks soon so i can link some more pictures then. I also plan on rebuilding the master cylinder soon because it needs to be rebuilt. What else might solve the problem?

Too much pressure. The most likely cause is you have a non stock clutch. You could remove the slave and boot and turn the motor over by hand. Yiu might be able to spot a manufacturer sticker on the pressure plate. Please turn the motor over clockwise only. You should also make sure the hydraulics aren't locked in place.

https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/clutch-basic-101-a-clutch-basics-thread-for-everybody.459908/

 

[AWD-Tony]

Are you sure the clutch was replaced recently? Going by the few bolts I can see from the pics you posted, it doesn’t look like they’ve been touched.

 

[TheDude236]

Well, the clutch was replaced, but it was nearly 2 years ago. That might explain it a bit.

 

[TheDude236]

Just a little update: Driving down the road with my dad and the car stopped shifting into gear because the clutch wasn't engaging at all. So, after some swearing, we threw it into neutral and pulled into a parking lot. Looked under the hood to see brake fluid (from the master cylinder reservoir) leaking everywhere. That all but confirmed our suspicions and are getting a new slave cylinder, master cylinder, new reservoir, and a tow truck

 

[We're on Boost]

That all but confirmed our suspicions and are getting a new slave cylinder, master cylinder, new reservoir, and a tow truck

Glad you are getting a new slave cylinder too. They have a hard life down there where they are.
AAA would probably be a good idea too, for flatbed service.

 

[pauleyman]

Just a little update: Driving down the road with my dad and the car stopped shifting into gear because the clutch wasn't engaging at all. So, after some swearing, we threw it into neutral and pulled into a parking lot. Looked under the hood to see brake fluid (from the master cylinder reservoir) leaking everywhere. That all but confirmed our suspicions and are getting a new slave cylinder, master cylinder, new reservoir, and a tow truck

This still does not explain the stiff clutch. We can help you but you must understand how clutch hydraulics work and specifically to this car. If fluid came out of the resevoir something other than seals is at play. It's a very basic system but understanding how it auto adjusts, the valve blockoff in the master that allows auto adjust and what happens if the entire system is installed incorrect is important to understand what's going on. Typically if a master fails it simply doesn't work and if it leaks it will leak inside the car past the piston seal and into the boot, rod and likely into the car and onto the carpet. If a slave fails same thing, It leaks past the seal, out the boot and past the rod onto the ground. When you first push in on the master it shuts off the orifice leading to the reservoir and no fluid moves between the piston bore and the slave. It is at this point hydraulic action starts to occur and the system actaully starts actuating the clutch. Over adjust the pedal assembly (push the master piston past this point) then the system is "locked" and no fluid can ever pass between the bore and the reservoir. There is no freeplay at this point and it's very simillar to "riding " the clutch. You can test this by pressing the slave back into it's bore. Fluid moves easily when the system is at rest. You will push fluid back into the master resevoir at this point. Over adjusted and you cannot do this and the slave cannot be pushed. Clear as mud?
Read the link I posted also.

Even after all this. A hard pedal would not be caused by any of this. If it's very stiff (not just lacking freeplay) then my guess if you have an aftermarket clutch and a tough one at that. I suppose it's possible for something in the system to malfunction but even so if you're replacing hydrulics anyway you will know very soon if you have a problem. Please follow the adjusting guidelines already posted. adjust too far and the system doesn't work right. Hope this help.

 

[TheDude236]

AAA would probably be a good idea too, for flatbed service.

My parents bought me a triple A card 2 christmases ago. Guess who we called to help us!

Even after all this. A hard pedal would not be caused by any of this. If it's very stiff (not just lacking freeplay) then my guess if you have an aftermarket clutch and a tough one at that. I suppose it's possible for something in the system to malfunction but even so if you're replacing hydrulics anyway you will know very soon if you have a problem.

Thanks for the tip! I really gotta look into that more because I’m still fairly new to this kinda stuff. I also was informed this morning by my dad that I explained my issue wrong. Im just some dumb teenager . The real issue wasn't the fact the clutch was heavy, but the fact that it engaged and disengaged to close to the floor. It felt heavy on the way down only near the bottom, but I said the whole push downnwas stiff which was wrong. Will be lifting the car tommorow to fix the issue, and we can further diagnose then. Who knows, might be hydraulics as well

 

[pauleyman]

That is/was probably an over adjusted clutch. Fix the hydraulics and go at it again.

 

[Vegas Smith]

My guess is an over-adjusted clutch as well. As previously mentioned, you can adjust the master cylinder rod to get more clutch travel to Band-Aid over certain issue but there comes a point where you can go too far and make the clutch feel like it's hitting a wall at the bottom. Regardless, I've always found it best to replace these components with new oem parts so that you know you have quality stuff.

 

[TheDude236]

Update 2: Officially changed and bled the master and slave cylinders. Clutch pedal felt better at first, but then I tried to shift to second and the gearbox buzzed at me. Yes we bled it properly, and the clutch feels better, but First is tough to shift into, and second will always buzz. The way we got the car to feel like this was by adjusting the rod from the master cylinder to the clutch pedal assembly all the way out. All the way out meaning meaning we can barely make it any longer (see picture). From what I know from watching some youtube is that that long adjustment isnt a good thing.
So my question is, what now? Im a bit lost. The clutch pedal seems to be great and fixed, but first and second are a bit rough to shift into. Is it just a transmission issue at this point, or is there something I did wrong when adjusting that rod?

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[pauleyman]

Can you still push the slave in by hand? If so what position is it now? I suspect your previous look may not be the same. There are multiple reasons for what yiu are experiencing lets take them one at a time.

 

[TheDude236]

Ok. I can push the clutch in by hand, but its quite difficult. I’ll send a picture.