motor turns but does not start?

[pezlow]

well like it says the motor turns but wont start. and the CEL doesnt come on AT ALL.

 

[pezlow]

i have the haynes manual if that counts for anything

 

[steve]

It's better than nothing but not by much.

 

[pezlow]

Update: ok so i got the ecu from the es talon and the CEL comes on now and i have spark again, i took off one of the spark plugs it smelled like gas so im getting fuel now, im getting code 14 from the ecu so i checked the tps and the ohms are reading right but not on the wires they read 3k and the book says it should read 4k-6k so i also checked the closed throttle position swicth at the tip of the "isc" (i think thats what it is called) and its burnt like crazy but i checked the ohms on the connector and it reads 30~ ohms, the book says to apply voltage to the isc and see if it vibrates or turns and all i got it to do was move a little. i hooked it back up and had a friend start the car and i could hear the isc try to work but i dont know if it is. could the isc keep my car from running or starting at all? isc is only 109+tax at autozone and the ecu for my turbo tsi is 277+tax at advanced auto parts.

 

[TapouT]

not realy sure how this site works... jsut bought my second dsm and kinda scared... the owner swaped a 97 GSX-T engine for the talons when he fried it. now he says he keeps burnning up turbos... got it for cheep but its stripped down to the block. bone stock ...not sure where to start . sombody please have mercy and help a poor guy out!!!

 

[pezlow]

ok since your new here and before anyone says anything about stealing my thread its all good. well go back a page and click on the button that says new thread and state all that you just did so you wont get into trouble. someone will help you to the best of their abilities.

 

[steve]

Update: ok so i got the ecu from the es talon and the CEL comes on now and i have spark again.

i took off one of the spark plugs it smelled like gas so im getting fuel now.

im getting code 14 from the ecu so i checked the tps and the ohms are reading right but not on the wires they read 3k. the book says it should read 4k-6k.

i also checked the closed throttle position switch at the tip of the "isc" (i think thats what it is called) and its burnt like crazy but i checked the ohms on the connector and it reads 30~ ohms, the book says to apply voltage to the isc and see if it vibrates or turns and all i got it to do was move a little. i hooked it back up and had a friend start the car and i could hear the isc try to work but i dont know if it is. could the isc keep my car from running or starting at all?

isc is only 109+tax at autozone and the ecu for my turbo tsi is 277+tax at advanced auto parts.

I had to edit a bit to try and understand what you were saying. I still don't get all of it but lets try.

The ECU turns on and throws a 14 code. That means the other one is bad. You can find good EPROM ECUs for less than what Advanced wants for a standard ECU.

Now before we go too far, when was the last time this car actually ran?

Code 14 is that either the TPS, the IPS (Idle Position Switch), or their wiring is bad. I think you were saying that the IPS on the top of the throttle body is burnt. That doesn't usually cause a 14 CEL right away but a low voltage from the TPS can.

The ISC on the bottom of the throttle body should measure about 30 ohms on each of it's four coils. When you turn the ignition on you can hear it clicking as it rehomes the pintle. Right now I can't tell if it's bad but it also shouldn't keep the engine from starting. If you do need a new one, Rock Auto sells then for less than $100.

The key question is when did the car last run?

 

[pezlow]

steve your right. i just got my data logger kit today in the mail and im getting idle switch, power steering and TDC sensor from Pocketlogger dsm. so my IPS is bad. would that cause my car from running? and what is TDc Sensor?

 

[pezlow]

ok i used palm n stein and i got code 15 ISC and code 36 ignition timing.

 

[steve]

steve your right. i just got my data logger kit today in the mail and im getting idle switch, power steering and TDC sensor from Pocketlogger dsm. so my IPS is bad. would that cause my car from running? and what is TDc Sensor?

The car will start with a bad IPS. The TDC is on half of the CAS sensor. It's the crankshaft position sensor and that can keep the car from running.

 

[pezlow]

ok im not getting code 15 or 36 any more, i checked timing adv. and its at 5 deg. the TPS reads 60, i dont know what that means. but im getting code 14 again.

EDIT: TDC Sensor only comes on when i crank the car, but im not getting an error code for the ecu for that.

 

[steve]

I don't use palm n stein. I tried it when it first came out and all it did was give me bad data and crash so I can't help explain what your looking at.

I use MMCd.

You can't look at the logger and read your timing. You have to set it with a timing light and then you'll know what is on the logger is accurate. If the base timing isn't set right the logger will think it is.
The TPS at idle should read 10% or between 0.48 v and 0.52v.

 

[pezlow]

i used MMCd and its giving me a code 14, but i think it the wires and not the sensor itself? ill check both again but like i said the wire the connects to the tps reads 3k and the book says it should read 4k-6k. but im going back to check it again. will the tps wireing keep the car from running. oh and when i put the battery back on after it charged it cranked up and idled at around 500rms for like 30 seconds and then slowly died again, now it wont crank.

 

[steve]

The TPS spec in the factory manual is 3.5k to 6.5k ohms between pins 1 and 4 and it should change resistance smoothly between 1 and 2 or 2 and 4 as you rotate it. With the throttle closed the ECU should get 0.48v to 0.52v unless your running DSMLink. That's 10% on MMCd for the TPS. If it's lower than 8% or a lot greater you'll get a CEL.

Check the battery voltage before you go looking for other causes. If it's less than 12.6v the battery is flat and needs a full charge or replacement.

 

[pezlow]

ok using MMCd i logged the TPS and it reads 2% when im not pushing the gas and reads 61% when i floor the gas, now thats with the ingnition on but not running. and it also reads 53Hz

 

[steve]

OK you need to adjust the TPS since it's too low.

I assume the 53Hz is from the MAFS parameter. With the engine off that's wrong.

 

[pezlow]

ok how do you adjust the TPS? and as for the MAFS parameter i dont know what you mean by that.

 

[steve]

ok how do you adjust the TPS? and as for the MAFS parameter i dont know what you mean by that.

In post 25 I told you to go download the real manuals. They will tell you how to loosen the two bolts and turn the TPS to adjust it.

Your the one who pulled the 53Hz out of the air. Where did you get it from?

 

[pezlow]

what should the MAFS parameter be reading? its not the original MAFS, they cut the wires and put a after market air filter and MAFS, i think its from a mitsubishi but i dont know

 

[pezlow]

ok i adjusted the TPS and not it reads 15% and now i have no ECU codes but the car still wont start. im confused

 

[bluegs03]

Your car needs these 3 things to start, fuel spark and compression. You now have a good ecu, and are getting spark on all 4 wires correct? You said something about fuel on the sparkplugs so im guessing your getting fuel. That means the big bad news, compression test time.

Heres how
How to test car engine compression

 

[steve]

oh and when i put the battery back on after it charged it cranked up and idled at around 500rms for like 30 seconds and then slowly died again, now it wont crank.

ok i adjusted the TPS and not it reads 15% and now i have no ECU codes but the car still wont start. im confused

But you said it did start. So I'm confused.

 

[pezlow]

yes it did start for about 30 seconds and died. im still not getting any error codes. so i guess ill have to check the compression.

 

[pezlow]

alright i checked the compresiion and 3 cylinders read 120lbs and the one next to the cam gears reads 115lbs. when i bought the car the guy said he did a compression check and it read 120 on all four cylinders but my question is 120lbs good? and also the guy said he bought the engine as a race engine and had it put in at some place that only works only on dsm's in FL for about 5,000$ but i dont know really if his word is any good.
and this is what i logged: o2-R .072V,TPS 12.5%, o2-f 2.4V, batt 11.6, mafs 37Hz, fuel 4.0psi and pump 0.7V and thats logged when i try to start the car.

 

[steve]

alright i checked the compresiion and 3 cylinders read 120lbs and the one next to the cam gears reads 115lbs. when i bought the car the guy said he did a compression check and it read 120 on all four cylinders but my question is 120lbs good?

114 is the limit below which they want you to rebuild it. 160 would be good.

this is what i logged: o2-R .072V,TPS 12.5%, o2-f 2.4V, batt 11.6, mafs 37Hz, fuel 4.0psi and pump 0.7V and thats logged when i try to start the car.

O2-F, FUEL, and PUMP aren't real values on a DSM, there are a bunch more in MMCd 1.8g are also are for sensors attached to an external box the author was going to sell.

With the engine not turning 37Hz from the MAF is a problem. It should be something like 3Hz or 0. What are COOL, AIRT, and BARO reading?

 

[pezlow]

COOL 55
AIRT 56
BARO 13.8 psi