Miller Diversion 165 TIG Welder

[95GreenGSX]

What do you guys think of the Miller Diversion 165 TIG Welder? Have any of you used it?
Im looking for a first "at home" welder. Ive used TIG' before at work and school and I'm looking to buy one for my own personal use. I'm not going to be welding some big 3/8" think plates together, but just looking for a nice TIG that I can get some more experience on and do some of my own welding work. Below is an article that I was reading and I thought they did a good job explaining the machine. Its about $1200 +/- a couple hundred for the accessories.

Hope to get some of your guys input, especially if you've used or know someone who uses this machine. Thanks

Miller Diversion 165 TIG Welder - Off-Road Magazine

 

[turboglenn]

Teh diversion is a great unit, although limited slightly by it's amperage, it does a great job on both AC and DC welding. I demo'd one at the local welding supply store (what we call the LWS on the welding forums) ANd i was very impressed with it. If you want something with a little more juice and still a small inverter based machine there's the "Thermal Arc 185" but they are about a grand more and only 20more amps, but have some of the higher tech features that the diversion doesn't ( but they aren't really needed untill you're doing thin SS and things that would require pulsing and such) But it's honeslty best to learn pulsing on your own with a foot pedal. I really like the torch that comes with the diversion, it's comfy and has an "on/off" button and an amptrol knob built into the handle. Couple that with also having a foot pedal in some kits and you've got a versatile machine (i still don't have a hand control on my TIG)

if you want to really learn a lot about the econotig, follow this link Topic Diversion 165

here's another good resource for information on welding and tips for different metals and such

Welding Tips and Tricks - TIG, MIG, Stick and a pantload of other info

 

[95GreenGSX]

Teh diversion is a great unit, although limited slightly by it's amperage, it does a great job on both AC and DC welding. I demo'd one at the local welding supply store (what we call the LWS on the welding forums) ANd i was very impressed with it. If you want something with a little more juice and still a small inverter based machine there's the "Thermal Arc 185" but they are about a grand more and only 20more amps, but have some of the higher tech features that the diversion doesn't ( but they aren't really needed untill you're doing thin SS and things that would require pulsing and such) But it's honeslty best to learn pulsing on your own with a foot pedal. I really like the torch that comes with the diversion, it's comfy and has an "on/off" button and an amptrol knob built into the handle. Couple that with also having a foot pedal in some kits and you've got a versatile machine (i still don't have a hand control on my TIG)

if you want to really learn a lot about the econotig, follow this link Topic Diversion 165

Im one step ahead of you, Ive read that thread already. I think they were bias on their opinions on most of the pages. They all are running 200-400dx's, so compared to that im guessing nothing is as good. Ive read alot about the diversion already and it seems like a pretty good machine. Again, im not going to be doing big metal/ alum yet, and I was looking to not spend over two thousand. I also saw the "Econotig", which looked nice, but I already have a arc welder and dont really need another. I want specifically a TIG machine. Im looking on doing 3/16 and under welding for now, both with aluminum and steel/ss. I found this post in the Miller Forums also, seems to look pretty nice.
Diversion 165...A 1st pass review - Miller Welding Discussion Forums

Turboglenn, thanks for the advise. How did you like the dial on the torch for the heat? Also, the on/off switch. Was it hard getting use to?
Thanks for the other link, ill check it out.

 

[turboglenn]

Yea, I pointed you to the wrong thread... they were back a bit but i had remembered there was a multi page tread that was about the diversion 165 from a user's standpoint and that's the one i was looking for. Honestly, My only quams with it are the ethernet/RJ45 style foot control hook up being proprietary for that unit unlike the more common 9 and 14 pin setups.

Sure the lack of amperage is a disadvantage, but with a little pre-heating of the materials and MAYBE some argon/helium mix, you could probably get it to perform almost as well as a 200amp machine if you had to push it for a job.Plus being an inverter machine it's going to be a little more powerfull that a traditional transformer base unit anyways so at least it's a stout 165 amps.


And for just a tad more money you could always step to the econotig which gives a few more adjustments and the capability of stick welding. You don't know how handy this can be if you especially dont alreay have a mig for some applications including "dirty pieces" like rusted mower decks and such until you need it. PLus, just like the Diversion, the Econotig has all the accessories you'll need to start welding right off the bat + a foot control (but no hand amptrol like the diversion, but i think you cna pick either when ordering both models)

HEre's a link if you haven't read about it. For some reason it's not on their main list of products under "TIG" but if you shoose the drop-box that says something like "selest by model" you'll find it that way as well, but this should take you right to it Miller - TIG Welders - Econotig®


EDIT: I believe there was a comparison thread on the millerweld forums about the two, but to be honest i only read a few posts in it then moved on since i had already bought my TIG and was looking for more user based posts about the 200dx dynasty.

 

[spoonman]

The Diversion is not bad for a "beginner" welder, one thing that I tell alot of younger people who want to get into welding is that to really make "good" welds you need an expensive machine (expecially for TIG) and you need a lot of skill. Almost every other "welder" I know is not that good. It will take a lot of practice to become "average" with a TIG Machine but by that time you will want something bigger, I suggest that you save up your money a little longer and either buy a (Small/Portable) Dynasty 200DX or a cheaper (Large/Stationary) Synchrowave 200 or 250. You can get a used Synchro. for cheap on Ebay. If you do buy the Diversion I can guarantee that after a while you will want something else and not be able to re-sell it for much (35% less)

Practice and Experience are very important, I know many guys who think they are "good" but their stacks of "dimes" have a few to many pennies in mixed in.

Glenn knows what he is talking about you should really consider his opinions.

 

[95GreenGSX]

Thanks guys for the help. Ill look into the Econotig some more. While looking into welders I found a miller syncrowave for ~$2100, thats only 200 more than the Econotig, but is it 200amps or only 150? The Dynasty looks really nice, but I cant justify a $4000 machine when im not doing this for a living and still learning how to make some nice dime rolls.

 

[awdrst]

The 165 really is a great little tig. I have used it a few times and it gets the job done. It's not crazy fancy but for the money it's hard to go wrong. Another option is to look at a used welder that is a year old or so. I see a decent amount of people that end up buying tigs for home and thinking they are going to use it all the time only to find out it takes some skill to use. They get frustrated and the machine just sits with only a few hours on it till they sell it. My buddy had a miller inverter that he sold for a pretty big loss and due to that situation.

 

[turboglenn]

Thanks guys for the help. Ill look into the Econotig some more. While looking into welders I found a miller syncrowave for ~$2100, thats only 200 more than the Econotig, but is it 200amps or only 150? The Dynasty looks really nice, but I cant justify a $4000 machine when im not doing this for a living and still learning how to make some nice dime rolls.

The Sync 200 is 200 amps, what's probably confusing you is that it comes with a torch that's rated at 150amps @ 100% duty cycle on DC current electrode negative. (or DCEN which is the standard polarity and setting for most all steels) That just means the torch can be run wide open at 150 amps for as long as you need to weld. But the synchrowave 200 power supply can only do 40% duty cycle at that 150 amps so you'd have to do some waiting either way. (duty cycle is based on 10 minute intervals - meaning @ 40% Duty cycle you can weld for 4 minutes out of every 10 and spend the other 6 letting the machine cool off). But honestly when working with welding you're usually not welding for very many minutes straight... For instance.. I'm working on a part that requires me to have 150 amps while using the sync 200. Well, I might fixture it one way and lay a bead that takes 30 seconds. Then i have to reposition the piece, secure it and setup to weld again before striking the arc, and the fixturing takes longer than the welding (say 2 - 5 minutes) well, by that time the machine is cool and ready to start all over again on working towards it's duty cycle limits.
I hope that makes sense

Anyway, I guess one thing that's going to make the biggest difference is how much you plan to use it away from home and Do you have 220 power available where you'll be working? For me being able to run off a generator and being able to run on 110 when needed was a HUGE factor in my purchase and now days a lot of miller's smaller inverter based machines can run on 110/115v plugs or 220volt and make the adjustments on it's own.

For example my Dynasty 200DX can run on anything from 110/220 single phase and up to 460 in 3 phase....(but i'm limited to 150 amps on 110/115 power) The 110 and 220 wiring is the same for both voltages, being black, white, and green wires. But, then there's an extra Red wire used for 3 phase wiring only. This makes the machine very versatile and able to be brought to about any site and plugged in and be ready to work. Going 3 phase however requires some wiring changes

So all i did was make an adapter for the 220 plug to plug into that is made from a 110 extension cord (heavy duty one) that i cut the female end off of and then wired a 220 female box onto it. SO my machine can plug into the dryer plug directly, or i can plug it into the adapter and run it off 110.

If portability is not a concern and you have 220 power in your garage, then you can even find an older synchrowave 250 (actually has 310 amps available for use) and can be had complete, ready to go used for right around 2k dollars on craigslist and ebay. Hell i had to pass one up here a few months ago because i was broke and it was only the power source alone, but he only wanted 700 bucks!!!! HAd i not just bought the dynasty and a generator to run it off of, that sync would have been in my garage right now

My opinion is that the diversion or econotig will be nice for a starter machine, but you will want to upgrade eventually... And although more expensive the inverter based machines are hard to beat with everything being so nice and small, and able to use various power sources you have less limitations than you would if you bought one of the bigger transformer machines..plus inverter machines are easier on your electric bill

 

[dylnwit]

I've used the Diversion 165 for about 2 months at school, and it's a pretty good machine in my opinion, although it is the only TIG machine I've used. I found it very easy to get dialed in and use, but I think the foot pedal would be a lot nicer to have than the thumb wheel if your going to be in a location that you can use a pedal. The no-touch start does work very nicely, but your metal must be very clean for it to work well in my experience. As far as capacity, I was able to get 2/3 penetration on 3/8in aluminum without doing anything more than cleaning off the two rectangular chunks I was using, and it handled steel and stainless well from what what I've done.

My only real gripe is how much of a pita it was for me to use thumb wheel while welding, it's only about the size of 3 pennies stacked up, and it doesn't stick out of the handle much, so I would occasionally have a hard time using it, and could almost never find it in heavier gloves.

 

[95GreenGSX]

The Sync 200 is 200 amps, what's probably confusing you is that it comes with a torch that's rated at 150amps @ 100% duty cycle on DC current electrode negative. (or DCEN which is the standard polarity and setting for most all steels) That just means the torch can be run wide open at 150 amps for as long as you need to weld. But the synchrowave 200 power supply can only do 40% duty cycle at that 150 amps so you'd have to do some waiting either way. (duty cycle is based on 10 minute intervals - meaning @ 40% Duty cycle you can weld for 4 minutes out of every 10 and spend the other 6 letting the machine cool off). But honestly when working with welding you're usually not welding for very many minutes straight... For instance.. I'm working on a part that requires me to have 150 amps while using the sync 200. Well, I might fixture it one way and lay a bead that takes 30 seconds. Then i have to reposition the piece, secure it and setup to weld again before striking the arc, and the fixturing takes longer than the welding (say 2 - 5 minutes) well, by that time the machine is cool and ready to start all over again on working towards it's duty cycle limits.
I hope that makes sense
ready to work....

Thanks and yes, i totally understand what your saying. Our teacher tried describing it but i guess its easier to comprehend on paper. You should come teach at my school, but its in Chicago, kinda a far commute. Thanks again for the advice, Im debating between the Econotig and the Syncrowave 200. I still have about a month before Im going to buy.

... As far as capacity, I was able to get 2/3 penetration on 3/8in aluminum without doing anything more than cleaning off the two rectangular chunks I was using, and it handled steel and stainless well from what what I've done....

What amperage were you at while welding that? Did you have to preheat? I dont really know if I like the wheel yet. Maybe ill stop in airgas and test them out, or have them lay some beads for me. Thanks

 

[dylnwit]

Honestly, I just cranked it all the way up on the handle, and on the machine, took my time, and went in nice, wide circles. Only heating I did on the metal was while I was getting the puddle going. I didn't use filler though.

 

[Spln_Hrd]

Its not a bad tig welder at all. It is a little small, I personally would go larger to give myself room to grow. But I am also the type of person looking for bigger and better all the time.

The miller econotig is an excellent machine as well for what it is, I have used one on some light duty aluminium and was really pleased with the results.

Also I prefer the amperage adjuster in the torch, I havn't mastered getting my foot involved while im welding just yet.

 

[Ludachris]

I have one but haven't even fired it up yet. I've had a lot of things come up that have prevented me from doing so. I'm hoping to get it started this week... but I'm a huge noob when it comes to welding so I don't know that I'll even be able to offer any valuable feedback on it.

I bought it because it was the most affordable TIG on the market and because it's a Miller. I knew I likely would only use it occasionally. If I ever need to get bigger stuff done that this unit can't handle, I'll likely have someone else do it. I doubt I'll have enough time and/or skill to do anything more than what this welder can handle anyway. I tend to always buy more than I need and it never pays off - so this time I bought what I thought I was use instead.