Metal HG and ARp studs worth it for 23psi?

[Stapl3]

Could you post the link

No .

 

[98spydert]

I would be careful about calling that a myth. Having the head and block decked is a necessary precaution.

Ok, I'll call it misinformation then. If the surface is clean, dry and not warped, there's no reason it won't seal. A straight edge is enough to tell if the block needs help or not.

 

[98spydert]

No .

Err.. ok. Can you post the high lights of the discussion then? Something other than "I heard this might be true"?

 

[gimmie11s]

No .

.. its Team NABR... TOP SECRET!!!

 

[RoasT BeeF]

Ok, I'll call it misinformation then. If the surface is clean, dry and not warped, there's no reason it won't seal. A straight edge is enough to tell if the block needs help or not.

There are thousands of imperfections on that block that you cant see with the naked eye. Same with the head. Stock gaskets seal these. A flat metal gasket does not. Thats why I am saying it is best to have both surfaces as smooth as possible and copper coat is always a must IMO.

 

[98spydert]

You have your opinion and theory, I have my experience and no leaks. I doubt anyone cares about either so we'll leave it at that.

 

[98spydert]

.. its Team NABR... TOP SECRET!!!

I know NABR doesn't like having info or anything posted on other forums. If he posts a link, only those of us that are registered can see it anyways.

 

[rsunahar]

You have your opinion and theory, I have my experience and no leaks. I doubt anyone cares about either so we'll leave it at that.

Id have to agree with you as far as not decking the head, but only insofar as to upgrading to a stronger headgasket that hasn't been blown. I've helped others successfully upgrade to metal gaskets on stock surfaces with copper sprary, but in all those cases, the head and deck were cleaned meticulously and the head gasket was still in tact.
If the headgasket's been blown or the car's been overheated, I'd generally not take any chances and have at least the head resurfaced and possibly even try to hand lap the block.


I also still maintain that the stock composite head gasket with ARPs, or I guess in Stapl3's case the stock bolts, is the way to go on a non-race car that is going to see high boost(just my opinion).
With detonation under control, everything should last.
And if it's not, the head gasket will MOST LIKELY be the first to be affected rather than hfresh new bottom end.

I always (now) try to make it so that the weakest links in my combination are the ones that I can afford to replace.

 

[98spydert]

Thanks for adding that, I was mainly talking about either just upgrading the head gasket or maybe when swapping heads. If the car saw some high coolant temps or blew the previous head gasket, I agree that more care should be taken.

 

[Turbo Talon DL]

A thread on NABR a while back suggested stock 1g headstuds could be stronger than ARPs.

I'd also like to read where this information you're "bringing to the table" came from. It sounds ALMOST interesting, seeing how im running NEW stock 6 bolt head bolts and a metal gasket. People who post claims as such above NORMALLY have a link to back it up so they dont appear ----->>>>

 

[rsunahar]

Thanks for adding that, I was mainly talking about either just upgrading the head gasket or maybe when swapping heads. If the car saw some high coolant temps or blew the previous head gasket, I agree that more care should be taken.

I have to add, though, as I didn't get to say this in my post, if one has the downtime, I'd resurface on anything daily driven.
In all cases I've experienced, none were daily drivers.


DSMs seem to work well when they know you're not relying on them to get you to work.
But once they know, any shortcut will be met with swift retribution.

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

A thread on NABR a while back suggested stock 1g headstuds could be stronger than ARPs.

No.

This is just silly, please don't post shit if your not willing to post a link to the discussion or at least explain yourself.

 

[rsunahar]

This is just silly, please don't post shit if your not willing to post a link to the discussion or at least explain yourself.

Perhaps he had a moment of weakness because I believe it's NABR policy to "not take any information from our [NABR] Forums and post it to other sites" (http://www.teamnabr.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?page=rules.html).

But I guess if anyone wanted to really know what he's talking about, there's a tech archives on NABR available for search.

 

[GSntncT]

Though this bears no relevance to the topic, I'd like to thank everyone that had a informative post....This just confirmed my thoughts of having a blown headgasket. I know now that I do.

 

[v2ner]

i've been runnin 27psi on arp headstuds w/ the stock HG for a while now. b4 the studs went in, i was doin 23psi w/ no problems. if i could have re-surfacing done, i'd do it and slap on a MLM HG just to b on the safe side.

 

[98autogstspyder]

Ok, I'll call it misinformation then. If the surface is clean, dry and not warped, there's no reason it won't seal. A straight edge is enough to tell if the block needs help or not.

The straight edge is enough for a stock headgasket, not a metal one. It may have worked fine for you because maybe your block wasn't warped at all. If your block was slightly warped (not enough for your straight edge to detect) you most likely would have sealant issues when using a metal headgasket. I also don't believe taking precautions to try and help bring success deserves negative feedback!

 

[Doug99RS]

From a first hand experience as a professional mechanic using MLS headgaskets I would HIGHLY recomend using the copper coat spray everytime.

Again with first hand experiences though I will tell you this:
I've used MLS w/copper coat on stock applications without having the block/head milled.

On ANY surface that has been subjected to an overheating condition the head(s) and block surfaces should always be checked for flatness and corrected through the appropriate machining process in order to prevent blowing out the new gaskets.

If you are running stock boost then ARPs aren't required but I would recomend them since most of us on here don't like "stock" anything and this will allow you some more room to grow in the future.

I have seen a few threads lately discussing milling technique differences when it comes to using an MLS vs non-MLS headgasket and there seems to be different opinions. I encourage people to find links from discussions like this and articles from professional machine shops (x-trude (sp)) and start backing up their arguements/debates with facts. So far I've not seen alot of this going on and too much arm-chair machinists arguements going on.
Thanks,
Doug