Medium sized turbo choosing.

[blownturbotsi]

I'm going to watch the 6466 and see what kind of problems and failures happen.

As for the dsm head and spinning to 8500, there's a guy that made 750awhp on just 36lbs and a 6266. Also it was a t3 .82. I've been reading quite a bit, but of course, I'll research the turbos that y'all are mentioning as well.

Do the holsets, bw's and the like also come in bb? Do these turbos require huge housings and/or twin scroll to get decent power? Looking at the 6466, it spools around or a little before 5k and keeps making power past 8500 and all on an open t3 .82. Looks like it makes 800whp easy to make.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Looks like it makes 800whp easy to make.

These will be your famous last words

Because one person can do it, doesn't mean you can, and I hope you don't take offense to that.

We don't have a newer Honda or Evo Cylinder head to take advantage of, you have to bet on needing more than most to make bigger figures.

What most of us in here are describing is what you will need to give yourself the best shot at hitting your goals. Trying to squeeze the most power out of the smallest turbine housing is not for the faint of heart and will require everything else to be perfectly complimentary and very efficient.. very few people can pull that off, let alone on the first try.

Look at the Evo guys using the 6466 making that sort of power. Most of them are using the divided T4 housings, wind out to 8500rpm or more and still have to run boost in the high 30s.

You are free to do as you please, but research is a poor substitute for experience. We are just trying to help.

So unless money is no concern, you should probably go with giving yourself the best possible shot or you will be chasing your tail and swapping parts till you hit the match you need with a bottle neck like a .82 T3 housing.

BB vs. JB has no discernible difference in spool and power potential. BB will have better recovery, though even that is debatable. BB will use less oil, but typically needs coolant run to the cartridge.

When it comes time to rebuild, you typically end up buying a whole new CHRA for the BB units.

None of these turbos require a huge housing to make power, but this is your first real rodeo it sounds like. A bigger housing will give you both the lag you desire as well as make more power per PSI boost because they are more efficient.


If I come off as a bit too enthusiastic on this its because I'd like to see you hit your goal without all the trouble so many others have gone through. It gets expensive when you have to swap parts looking for the bottle neck or the weak link.

Just give yourself the best chance from the get go, and when it comes to the turbo.. for that power level its a no brainer.

And for someone who was originally so concerned with making sure you had appreciable lag why do you now insist on ball-bearing CHRAs, small turbine housings and low redline?

See where we are coming from? Much of what you are posting is contradicting its' self.

 

[blownturbotsi]

The 6266 guy was a 1g. You keep mentioning the boost in the high 30's like its a bad thing. Why are you using a big turbo if you think boost in the 30's is a lot? There are plenty of people using the .82 and doing plenty well with it. I do have a specific setup in mind currently, but I'm always open to new things. I'm hoping the 2g head will be my saving grace. Lastly, bb is not for the spool since that is minimal, it's for boost recovery and longevity. No more water lines if I go with the 6466.

 

[blownturbotsi]

I hope it doesn't take forever for this build, but I'm definitely going to look you up when it's done so you can see my results. like I said before, I'm not forging new ground. I had this plan when the 6262 came out forever ago, just gave up on the car.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

If you can make your goal with less boost its just much easier, especially on the fuel supply side. It is also indicative of a more efficient setup.

All that I and others are trying to convey is that you are increasing your chances of hitting your target on the first shot by making it easier for the motor to breathe. Power is all about airflow, is it not? IATs are lower typically with less boost, it's easier to fight off heat soak as well.

I am expecting to have to run a combination of 40+ psi boost but on a low comp motor and I am preparing to wind out to 10.5k to make my MPH goals. This is a car that wont see much street time mind you.

Moving a lot of air with very high combined fuel pressure requires much more demand of the pump(s) and your electrical system.

Recently found the need to switch to a magnafuel 4303 pump and a surge tank in preparation for running a 100lb/min turbo full bore through a tall fifth gear on a 26" or 28" tire for 2-3 miles at a time.

I have a 1G head, FWIW.

 

[blownturbotsi]

Higher compression may have been a wiser choice. A friend of mine was trying to break 1000hp on a 4202 with low 8:1 compression and figured that he'd be doing 50lbs+ to get there while his buddy Mr Reichen was doing it at a much lesser 40lbs with much higher compression. Another friend with high compression took my old 6262 and made 651 at 27lbs on his gvr4, again with high compression. I'm not riding on coat tails, but I know a good thing when I see it.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

To get this turbo to its sweet spot on a high rpm 2.0 I need to run very high PR anyways, which is why I chose to run 8.5:1CR and use more aggressive timing (spark and valve) to keep DCR up at the big end with low EGT.

Higher compression may have been a wiser choice. A friend of mine was trying to break 1000hp on a 4202 with low 8:1 compression and figured that he'd be doing 50lbs+ to get there while his buddy Mr Reichen was doing it at a much lesser 40lbs with much higher compression. Another friend with high compression took my old 6262 and made 651 at 27lbs on his gvr4, again with high compression. I'm not riding on coat tails, but I know a good thing when I see it.

The GT4202 is a 74mm wheel.. Mike Reichen is on a Borg Warner S480.. so those boost figures aren't apples to apples, compression not withstanding.

Is the friend on the GT4202 that you are referring to John Wigger by chance?

 

[swifteagle]

I went with a hx52 on your old talon it's almost done.

 

[BoostKrazy]

Lmao dick move ^

 

[n0de]

I just want to hear about how he strips 3rd gear.

 

[rr06rs]

I keep seeing "my buddy made x with x........I read where someone did x with x......a guy on here did x"......you need to lose that mentality when trying to optimize YOUR setup for YOUR goals. Sure....its great to see what a turbo is capable of on someone's combination but that doesn't mean its going to come CLOSE to doing the same on yours. Most(nearly ALL) of those people did the research and specd out their setups in a whole to get where they are. Yes, there are those few that luck out and throw it at the wall and it sticks but for most that go about there selections as you are, usually end up falling short of their expectations.

That's my rant. Lol. As for my suggestion, I can only go based on your power goals and PART of your rpm requirements because, quite frankly, your overall goal based on you motor specs, rpm requirements, and power goals do not exactly coincide in the same realms. While I think the 6466 is a potent unit, I will not do business with PTE any longer for the same reasons as Landspeed, as well as the way they conduct their product testing and their overall approach to turbo technology. I believe Holsets do a GREAT job for most and their performance relentless brute durabilitythus far in their ability to crossover into in the high power, small displacement, gasoline fueled world is honestly MIND BOGGLING considering it was nothing they even considered nor intended them for. Imagine if Holset actually started focusing on making turbos to fit our niche such as others have.....I think they would be on top if they ever did simply based on how great they've done so far without trying. With that said, my choice for you would be this.....
BorgWarner S300SX FMW Turbo - Full-Race.com

Or, if you wanted to go even CHEAPER at the cost of a little bit more lag then go with the tried and true s366. Don't get me wrong, you'd really have to ring those turbos out to get 750hp out of them, but the are more than capable of it, at 2/3rds to half the price of the 6466. You did say that you're a fan of overbuilding though so if that's the case, then I'd go with this.... BorgWarner S400SX 67mm FMW Turbo - Full-Race.com

Performance per dollar I don't think you can beat the Airwerks units unless you're talking about a Holset and I'm not sure you'd enjoy the hx52 powerband and the hx40, as great as it is, wouldn't likely quite reach your goals. The s300sx fmw(62mm), s366(66mm), and the s400sx fmw(67mm) turbos kinda bridge that gap between the hx40 and hx52. Now if you want the BEST response possible while obtaining what each of these, you can drop the extra coin for basically the EFR version of the s300sx or s400sx, which would put you in the catagory of the dbb 6466, gtx3582, and FP3586, cost wise. However, you're still getting more turbo for your money going BW. Plus, the additional cost from the Airwerks units is offset by about 75% once you factor in the moneys saved by not needing a bov OR wastegate. Whatever you DO decide on, I would DEFINITELY do a twinscroll housing because getting air OUT of the head is just as important as getting it IN. It's just one of the things that is gonna determine the efficiency of your setup and to do the things you're tryin to do, you'll need a VERY efficient setup.