Making a Turbo-Back

[abaddon_baliel]

Alright, I've read a lot of threads regarding exhaust, and I've shopped around quite a bit on different brands of exhaust... I'm making a 3" turbo-back for my 97 Spyder GST. I'm going with the FP 68HTA turbo (it's pretty much a very high-flowing 16G), VRSF fmic, 750cc injectors, basic supporting mods. But this exhaust is going to be my first real mod. I don't believe I really need a cat-delete system, was thinking of going with high-flow cat. I think systems without a cat tend to be very ricey-sounding and sound like garbage. I want a very deep, smooth sound to my exhaust. I'm just a little confused on how to build a turbo-back, since I've read it's from the o2 housing and not the downpipe? I don't get that part. Below are the options I was thinking about.

Megan Racing 3" downpipe, MIL.SPEC 3" high-flowing cat, Megan Racing Cat-back. This totals to around $696. Is this all I need, or do I need to get the Forced Performance EVOIII o2 housing as well? I'm not sure how this fits in to the exhaust...

I was also looking at the Thermal R&D cat-back, I've read some pretty good things about it. How does it stack up against the Megan Racing cat-back? If there is a reason to justify spending $200 more for it, I'll bite.

Also, is there a better high-flow cat than the one I picked? There's one from magnaflow for about the same price...

And if you think what I have picked out is complete shit, and you have a reason for it, and can back it up, show me what I should get, and I'll consider it. And no, there are no emissions testing here, so I could go cat-less if you can convince me why I should. Is the shitty sound really worth the extra 1-2hp? I'm not building a track monster, just a 350whp cruiser.

Thanks in advance for the help.

 

[Xeiros]

Thermal R&D is by far and away my favorite DSM exhaust. It's got a great tone and doesn't have the coffee can canister look coming out the back. The only thing I don't like about their exhaust is that it necks down right where it would connect to the cat so that it can be used with the stock downpipe/cat.

You don't need an Evo III O2 housing. The stock 2g ones can be ported out if you're dead set the extra flow.

 

[96awd]

I was running a VRS TBE w/ cat-delete. Very deep, throaty sound. Only was really loud when at high rpm's. Not ricey sounding at all and not even close to it. Removing the car doesn't do this. If you put a bigger 4" exhaust tip on a 3" exhaust, it'll sound ricey.

 

[abaddon_baliel]

You don't need an Evo III O2 housing. The stock 2g ones can be ported out if you're dead set the extra flow.

I'm actually cool with leaving it stock. I don't really care, I just was asking if I would need it for the turbo I'm getting. I believe it flows at 47lbs/min which is very good for how small it is, and I didn't know if I needed to "upgrade" the o2 housing or whatever. I don't really understand how all that flow crap works. But you said I don't need it, I assume you know the flow rate of the 68hta, and my car is not going to blow up, and that's really all I care about.

And yes, I read a lot of great things about Thermal R&D, and it seems to be designed very well, aside from the bottlenecking. I'd be getting a true 3" high-flow cat, so would I have to get someone to weld the pipe to the 3" outlet for the cat, since the pipe would be too small? (would ###### have to cut it at the bottleneck and weld the unrestricted part to the cat... idk).

Any more suggestions?

I was running a VRS TBE w/ cat-delete. Very deep, throaty sound. Only was really loud when at high rpm's. Not ricey sounding at all and not even close to it. Removing the car doesn't do this. If you put a bigger 4" exhaust tip on a 3" exhaust, it'll sound ricey.

I'm not getting what you mean... I had an EVOII exhaust on my old GS with the cat on, had a nice deep, smooth sound, not ricey. Wife had an RS with cat-delete, 3" header-back exhaust, sounded ricey because of the lack of cat. Both had 4" tips on smaller-sized exhaust.

What exhaust system can you get that doesn't have a bigger tip? Even Thermal R&D has a 4" tip for a 3" exhaust.

EDIT:: As an afterthought... since the thermal cat-back is designed for the stock... if I were to just get this cat-back, would I suffer terribly for it? As in, leave everything else stock, including stock cat. Would it be a noticable loss, if any? I have other mods planned that add on power, and the exhaust doesn't really add much power considering the other mods. So would I be good to just get the thermal catback? Or is this a big no-no? Explain please.

 

[96awd]

I'm actually cool with leaving it stock. I don't really care, I just was asking if I would need it for the turbo I'm getting. I believe it flows at 47lbs/min which is very good for how small it is, and I didn't know if I needed to "upgrade" the o2 housing or whatever. I don't really understand how all that flow crap works. But you said I don't need it, I assume you know the flow rate of the 68hta, and my car is not going to blow up, and that's really all I care about.

And yes, I read a lot of great things about Thermal R&D, and it seems to be designed very well, aside from the bottlenecking. I'd be getting a true 3" high-flow cat, so would I have to get someone to weld the pipe to the 3" outlet for the cat, since the pipe would be too small? (would ###### have to cut it at the bottleneck and weld the unrestricted part to the cat... idk).

Any more suggestions?



I'm not getting what you mean... I had an EVOII exhaust on my old GS with the cat on, had a nice deep, smooth sound, not ricey. Wife had an RS with cat-delete, 3" header-back exhaust, sounded ricey because of the lack of cat. Both had 4" tips on smaller-sized exhaust.

What exhaust system can you get that doesn't have a bigger tip? Even Thermal R&D has a 4" tip for a 3" exhaust.

EDIT:: As an afterthought... since the thermal cat-back is designed for the stock... if I were to just get this cat-back, would I suffer terribly for it? As in, leave everything else stock, including stock cat. Would it be a noticable loss, if any? I have other mods planned that add on power, and the exhaust doesn't really add much power considering the other mods. So would I be good to just get the thermal catback? Or is this a big no-no? Explain please.

The exhaust I'm using is a straight 3" exhaust. Tip is 3". My brother's GST has a 3" exhaust with a 4.5" tip, sounds extremely ricey. If you have a straight through exhaust then when coming to the tip it gets bigger, it's practically going to echo of the can to create that sound.

 

[abaddon_baliel]

The exhaust I'm using is a straight 3" exhaust. Tip is 3". My brother's GST has a 3" exhaust with a 4.5" tip, sounds extremely ricey. If you have a straight through exhaust then when coming to the tip it gets bigger, it's practically going to echo of the can to create that sound.

Huh.. didn't know they made exhausts like that for DSMs... then again, most companies that made the good shit for our cars have gone out of business since before I even owned my first dsm. I'm reading forums that are 5 years old and reading all these brands that were good but don't exist anymore. But I like Thermal R&D. Megan's design looks really straight-through though, and there is no bottle-necking... does anyone know how the Megan compares to the Thermal?

 

[96awd]

Huh.. didn't know they made exhausts like that for DSMs... then again, most companies that made the good shit for our cars have gone out of business since before I even owned my first dsm. I'm reading forums that are 5 years old and reading all these brands that were good but don't exist anymore. But I like Thermal R&D. Megan's design looks really straight-through though, and there is no bottle-necking... does anyone know how the Megan compares to the Thermal?

Comparing, not so much. But I know 3 of my close friends that are running MR and they sound just as my VRS did. Amazing, not ricey at all. Nice, deep, throaty sound a DSM should have. Youtube video's can show comparison.

 

[abaddon_baliel]

Comparing, not so much. But I know 3 of my close friends that are running MR and they sound just as my VRS did. Amazing, not ricey at all. Nice, deep, throaty sound a DSM should have. Youtube video's can show comparison.

I know how the MR sounds, thats one of the reasons I was still considering it. And I've heard Thermal. I meant comparison as in dB ratings, and HP ratings on each one. (Idle, 3k, etc.)

There's gotta be a reason Thermal is $200 more than MR, right? Right?

 

[talonDSMerr]

Exhausts are usually pretty simple for our cars. A good exhaust remains a consistent diameter all the way from the turbo to the muffler, mandrel bent with a minimum number of bends, and with the bends having as small a degree bend as possible. There are a BUNCH of companies that make exhausts for DSMs that meet these requirements. I would go with the MR catback over the Thermal. Unless the Thermal is Titanium, which offers weight savings, they will perform damn near the same.

 

[abaddon_baliel]

OK, so for a turbo back, all I need to get is the downpipe, test pipe, and cat-back, correct? I don't NEED to do anything with the o2 or any of that nonsense? If so, I can have a MR turbo-back for the same price as a Thermal cat-back.

MR 3" Downpipe $135
MR 3" Cat-back $405

 

[94_TSi]

OK, so for a turbo back, all I need to get is the downpipe, test pipe, and cat-back, correct? I don't NEED to do anything with the o2 or any of that nonsense? If so, I can have a MR turbo-back for the same price as a Thermal cat-back.

MR 3" Downpipe $135
MR 3" Test-pipe $60
MR 3" Cat-back $383

You can spend that $578 all day long but in my honest opionion you can get the same result from a muffler shop or welder that knows what they are doing. Around here we can take our own muffler and have the work done for a little over $100 out the door. Scrap your old cat if it isnt hollowed out or the precious metals gone and damn near pay for your exhaust work. The only key is to find someone that takes pride in what they are doing.

 

[turbo98eclipse]

Some downpipes eliminate the cat/testpipe

Thermal is prob the best I've heard. I had one on my other dsm. You could always have a shop make you an exhaust for under 200 and just buy the muffler of the exhaust you want. Save a few hundred dollars...

 

[Xeiros]

I was running a VRS TBE w/ cat-delete. Very deep, throaty sound. Only was really loud when at high rpm's. Not ricey sounding at all and not even close to it. Removing the car doesn't do this. If you put a bigger 4" exhaust tip on a 3" exhaust, it'll sound ricey.

Not true.

I had an HKS Carbon-Ti exhaust and it sounded fine. I was worried as hell when I picked it up from the guy I was buying it from and saw the coffee can of an exhaust it had on there, but it wasn't raspy at all. It sounded really good. It's all in the muffler itself. If you've got a muffler that doesn't properly cancel out the vibrations, you'll hear it.

Case in point, I had a 2.4L Grand AM GT that had a flowmaster 40 on it. It was GREAT sounding at low idle, but every time I crossed about 3000 RPM's I heard rasp (buzzing sort of sound associated with Honda's). With no changes to the exhaust system other than replacing the Flowmaster with a Summit Racing glass pack muffler, it was gone. Not as cool of an idle, but no rasp in the pipes at all.

 

[abaddon_baliel]

I'd love to take it to an exhaust shop, and I actually thought about doing that before getting into all this shopping around for overpriced exhaust kits crap, but I honestly don't know if any of the exhaust shops around here will do it. They're all a bunch of stuck up old farts. If I do find one though, and chances are slim at that.. could I just use the stock muffler? I love the dual tip of the stock muffler. Would I still get a nice deep exhaust by using the stock muffller? Also, it would help keep a sleeper look.

 

[94_TSi]

I'd love to take it to an exhaust shop, and I actually thought about doing that before getting into all this shopping around for overpriced exhaust kits crap, but I honestly don't know if any of the exhaust shops around here will do it. They're all a bunch of stuck up old farts. If I do find one though, and chances are slim at that.. could I just use the stock muffler? I love the dual tip of the stock muffler. Would I still get a nice deep exhaust by using the stock muffller? Also, it would help keep a sleeper look.

You will want to run 3'' exhaust for your car or 2.5'' at the least. 3'' allows you to do the job only once if you ever plan on more mods bigger turbo etc. I wouldnt run exhaust all the way back then reduce it at the inlet of the muffler, not smart.

I forgot to add if you like the dual tip look there are plent of companies making that style which incorporate 2.5'' and 3'' inlets.

 

[UofACATS]

Wife had an RS with cat-delete, 3" header-back exhaust, sounded ricey because of the lack of cat. Both had 4" tips on smaller-sized exhaust.

It sounded ricey because it was an RS

But seriously, you shouldn't compare an NA vehicle to a turbo vehicle when comparing exhaust notes..


And I vote Thermal R&D, but I'm biased. I'm not sure if the ricey 5" tip makes it sound "ricey" or bad or whatever.

[youtube]QhE3v4diadk[/youtube]

 

[Xeiros]

The only time I've ever known people run 3" piping into stock piping is when they install a cutout, and it's usually on the downpipe. Otherwise it's a waste of money because you're bottlenecking yourself back to the original diameter that you were upgrading in the first place.


The problem with local shops is that unless it's a race shop or specialty shop, they likely wont deal with mandrel bends, which means you'll either get press or crushed bends instead which drastically reduce the piping diameter in those sections.



If you want to do this on the cheap, scan the classifieds and ebay and look for someone selling one used for a decent price.


Like 94_tsi said, if you're gonna do it, do it once and do it right.

 

[abaddon_baliel]

OK.. well if I have to get the ricey big ass can for a muffler, I like HKS's carbon fiber one. So I'll do some calling around and see if any shops around here feel like taking up the project.

Xeiros -- I'm not looking to do it on the cheap, I'm looking to do it right. That's why I made this thread. If I can't find an exhaust shop around here that will do it, I'll spend more money and do it the old fashioned brand-driven way of buying the parts. I'll ###### go with MR.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

By the thread title, I thought you were actually going to make one for yourself.
Son, I am disappoint.

 

[abaddon_baliel]

By the thread title, I thought you were actually going to make one for yourself.
Son, I am disappoint.

...OK? And this helps the thread how?

I'm not a do it yourself kind of guy, sorry. There are plenty of those on this forum for your viewing pleasure.

My bad for asking for help.

 

[turbo98eclipse]

By the thread title, I thought you were actually going to make one for yourself.
Son, I am disappointED.

I felt the same way, and am a little confused on what your actual thread is about-- are you just asking what exhaust you should go with? or what all is included in the term turbo-back?

--turbo back is downpipe+catback. no o2 housing needed

--as far as the exhaust I say just listen to them on youtube... its got to be 1000 or so vids on there on various car setups. I already gave my opinion of the thermal. megan DP is fine. lots of people run it on here

 

[Xeiros]

...OK? And this helps the thread how?

I'm not a do it yourself kind of guy, sorry. There are plenty of those on this forum for your viewing pleasure.

My bad for asking for help.

, dude, you're getting pissy over nothing. The thread title is "Making a Turbo-back". When I clicked on it, I thought you were actually MAKING one as well. The thread title is a bit deceiving. Thats all.


And as for the "on the cheap" comment, it seemed like you didn't want to spend much on it by the way you were talking about the over-priced name brands.

 

[abaddon_baliel]

, dude, you're getting pissy over nothing. The thread title is "Making a Turbo-back". When I clicked on it, I thought you were actually MAKING one as well. The thread title is a bit deceiving. Thats all.


And as for the "on the cheap" comment, it seemed like you didn't want to spend much on it by the way you were talking about the over-priced name brands.

I'm not getting pissy, I wasn't even being serious. I know how the title sounds. But whatever, I'm not gonna "argue" on a forum. And I said over-priced brands because that's what they are. It's just pieces of aluminized or stainless steel (depending on the manufacturer) with some bends. It doesn't cost that much to make. I know, I used to work in a steel mill. So yes, it's all very overpriced. That's not to say I don't like the brands, and I am willing to spend the money if it's actually going to be worth it.

I'm just looking to do it right the first time. Period.

I felt the same way, and am a little confused on what your actual thread is about-- are you just asking what exhaust you should go with? or what all is included in the term turbo-back?

--turbo back is downpipe+catback. no o2 housing needed

--as far as the exhaust I say just listen to them on youtube... its got to be 1000 or so vids on there on various car setups. I already gave my opinion of the thermal. megan DP is fine. lots of people run it on here

I made the thread because I was confused as to what actually made a turbo-back. I thought I had the right idea (and I did) but I wanted confirmation of this. And I wanted to know if there is any "best" exhaust out there, or if they're generally all the same. (As far as performance is concerned)

But my questions have been answered. Thanks.

 

[turbo98eclipse]

so what are you going with?

 

[abaddon_baliel]

so what are you going with?

Well, right now that's hard to say. I haven't had the time to get quotes from exhaust shops yet. But if none of them around here will do it, I'll probably be going with the MR downpipe and cat-back. I just can't justify spending another 200 dollars on the Thermal for no performance gain. And they sound relatively similar, with the Thermal being a tad throatier.