Looking for suggestions

[Burntz]

I have a 96 talon, awd turbo, and I can't get it to run right, in simple terms.

Sometimes It will stay running, usually it runs for about 3 seconds before it dies, whether im on the gas or not.

The more I try to start it, the harder it gets to start. Sometimes It almost like... seizes up for a second, like it tries to start and something stops it.

Also, whenever I actually get it to run, it smells very rich. It also sounds like its making alot of noise from the head (either a knock, or exhaust leak.)

I'm trying to figure out wtf is wrong. Doesn't seem like bent valves or a fk'd bottom end. I'm pretty new to DSM's though.


Steps taken:
New plugs properly gapped (old ones were BLACK, new are NGK v powers)
Fresh oil change, 1 qt lucas oil stabilizer
Checked timing belt marks (spot on)
Unplugged MAF, no difference.
Drained oil, checked it, no shavings.

Things to check tomorrow so far:
Proper wire order
Compression test
Use a friends MAF

???

 

[TsiBoosted4g63]

Did you wire in the 2g Maf(if so check the wiring to see if its right...you have a 6bolt swap right

 

[1990AWD]

Did you wire in the 2g Maf(if so check the wiring to see if its right...you have a 6bolt swap right

What makes you think he right away has a 6 bolt??

To the OP, for starters, get rid of those V-Power plugs. NGK Copper work best in our cars.

The car needs three things for it to start: fuel, spark, and compression. Check that you have all three on all four cylinders.

 

[Burntz]

Stock 7 bolt.

I know how a car runs silly . I have spark, I have fuel (although too much fuel I think) and we're compression checking it tomorrow.

And actually a car needs 4 things to start, fuel/spark/AIR/compression

I'm wondering if the maf is bad and or timing is off too? This car has never been screwed with or modded so I would imagine timing would be fine.

 

[1990AWD]

Stock 7 bolt.

I know how a car runs silly . I have spark, I have fuel (although too much fuel I think) and we're compression checking it tomorrow.

And actually a car needs 4 things to start, fuel/spark/AIR/compression

I'm wondering if the maf is bad and or timing is off too? This car has never been screwed with or modded so I would imagine timing would be fine.

Compression includes air as the compression is the air being compressed!

 

[pdc200302]

Well with it having a hard time starting when you have been trying for a while, that could be the starter get hot and causing drag in the starter but before you go any farther you need to check compression on the motor and you might want to check the injectors to make sure that they are not leaking or stay open. How do you know for sure that you are getting spark on all four cylinders? If you can try to hook it up to a code reader and see if you can get any info off of it that way since its all stock.

 

[400hp93talon]

Do a compression test even though most of the time these motors will start and run having crappy compression which hopefully it doesnt have(because that will save alot of money)it will help diagnose wether the rings r shot, broken piston or the valve issue or nothing is wrong(timing,spark plugs,mafs,cas,coil,ecu,fuel injectors or just plug wires). If your not exagerating about it running for 3 sec then shutting off and trying to start but wont you probably have broken or bent valves as in on more than one cylinder. Alot of people dont understand how much damage occurs when a timing belt breaks so they put a new one on and sell the thing. If its ticking to where you have to question wether its bad or not, chances r its really bad or it may just be spark knock from not getting fuel!! How many miles are on this 7bolt?

 

[Burntz]

The car has 147k on it, and the belt looks like it should have been changed 47k miles ago . I'm assuming its the stock belt.

A compression check would show terrible compression if it had a couple bent valves right? Also, sometimes after trying to start it, I'll hear a tiny "pop", like a back fire.

And I don't think its spark knock, its getting too much fuel it smells like. I have a friend on his way over right now with a comp tester, and hopefully he found his multimeter.

 

[rlacasse1]

have you made sure your firing order is right

 

[400hp93talon]

The car has 147k on it, and the belt looks like it should have been changed 47k miles ago . I'm assuming its the stock belt.

A compression check would show terrible compression if it had a couple bent valves right? Also, sometimes after trying to start it, I'll hear a tiny "pop", like a back fire.

And I don't think its spark knock, its getting too much fuel it smells like. I have a friend on his way over right now with a comp tester, and hopefully he found his multimeter.

Your valves bent,cracked,chipped or arent seating thats what its gotta be either that or its firing to advanced that would be why its running for like 3 seconds. And yes if the valves are leaking you will have very low compression numbers!!

 

[Burntz]

Well we just compression tested it (no leak down test), but compression was 180 across the board.

So now that I know compression is perfect, im even more confused.

At this point, I think a lifter may be ####ed? That would explain the loud sound coming from the intake side.

When we pulled the plugs to compression test it though, they smelled like pure gasoline. Its running very VERY rich for some reason.

Also, firing order is spot on, and gap's are set correctly. Will probably pick up plug wires tomorrow just to know they're new. That or I'll just pull wires and hold them next to a ground to be sure that they're all sparking.

Any other ideas on the extreme richness?

 

[ifeelubu]

was it doing this since you got the car. You should get a logger check your fuel trims also check your oxygen sensors and maf sensor anything thing that effects your air to fuel ratio

 

[velocitysport31]

check the coolant temp sensor, and the wiring, that will cause it to run rich, and make it hard to start. And like you previously stated check your maf with a known good one. If everything is stock there is no need for a logger. And if you have a 6-bolt with Cam sensor on the side of the head make sure its not 180 off, or use a known good one as well.

 

[Burntz]

Completely stock. 7 Bolt . Will go crazy with a multimeter soon as I have a chance.

 

[velocitysport31]

Ok no 6-bolt i thought you had one because it was in your profile. Are you throwing any codes. I would also check your Crank Sensor, and check for crank walk. If you have excessive end play it could have worn your crank sensor. It will also make a tick noise, specially when you push the clutch in.

 

[Burntz]

Well its an automatic, so I'm just kinda ruling out crankwalk by default. No shavings in oil either.

Coolant temp sensor is a good idea to check as well. Especially since it won't stay running long enough to get warm anyway .

Its probably a combination of things. In a few days I'm picking up a mystery 7 bolt for $50 thats complete, so I'll probably just pull the head, have it decked and checked, and swap it on there with a new HG, then go from there. I need a new timing belt anyway.

But thats pending me pulling the valve cover and inspecting all the springs / lifters.