Logger vs Wideband w/ Water Injection

[xhaust50]

I'm looking to add a Devil's Own Stage 1 kit to my car to get a few more pounds of boost. I'm wondering how far off can my WWF tune be if I only use a logger and not a wideband? If the car is tuned and there is no knock on the logger, am I at least safe or do I have no way of knowing? I'd like to add water injection instead of a FMIC because it fits my budget better, which is also why I'd like to get a safe tune with a logger and not need a wideband if possible. Opinions appreciated.

 

[turboglenn]

You NEED a wideband to get a correct tune, after you get one of those a logger insn't "required" i ran without one for a long time only relying on a wideband, and just keeping an eye on what it does.

The WW fluid will make the car richer, but when it's on you will want to lean it out to where it's at normal AFR's and it will run much stronger. I found that using more meth , less water yielded me the best results till i blew the tranny starting to really pull the power out of the tune.

I say water injection and a wideband. A logger is important to have so you can see what your timing is doing, but i'dd rather have safe AFR's and run the timing conservative or let it pull timing out compared to now knowing what "real AFR" you're at.

Some will diss-agree saying that you can get your AFR with a logger by just tuning for max timing advance, so it's all up to you. I told you my preference

 

[xhaust50]

Are people damaging there motors without seeing any knock?

 

[xhaust50]

And another question to the people with both a logger and a wideband. Where have your A/F ratio's been when you have leaned the fuel maps out to 0-1 count of knock?

 

[turboglenn]

And another question to the people with both a logger and a wideband. Where have your A/F ratio's been when you have leaned the fuel maps out to 0-1 count of knock?

With 80/20 meth mix with an M10 nozzle i've gotten up to 12.2:1 under 20 psi and 16* timing with 0 knock. Before i had to go 11:1 on pump gas to not get knock at the same boost and timing. 11.5:1 was still really decent, but when i went as rich as in the 10.5'ish area i got way more knock. I was seeing 6-7 degrees pulled at 10.8:1 and only 1-2* tops at 11.5:1

when my new trans is in this weekend i'm going to see how much timing i gan add at 12:1 and how much boost i can get away with.

 

[xhaust50]

I appreciate your responses. But if I understand this correctly, you are getting knock when you run rich (10's) and none when slightly leaner (11's). When do you see knock when you are on the lean side? It seems like the logger is showing no knock when you have the appropriate AFR, thus one may not need the wideband.

Just trying to understand this.

Also, my DSM chip is supposed to be set to run at 11.5 WOT, but not sure how accurate it is because I add 35% fuel at idle (but nothing anywhere else, and haven't had a chance to tune it for boost yet. I just have the boost turned all the way down and stay out of boosting for now. Will tune in two weeks with the wideband and low boost).

 

[turboglenn]

I appreciate your responses. But if I understand this correctly, you are getting knock when you run rich (10's) and none when slightly leaner (11's). When do you see knock when you are on the lean side? It seems like the logger is showing no knock when you have the appropriate AFR, thus one may not need the wideband.

Just trying to understand this.

My computer is completely different than yours and my knock monitor is a completely seperate unit. Plus i've been tuning ECU's and flashing chips for well over 10 years. BUt what you took from my post is exactly what i said. BUt it's not about my car, it's about tuning for what your car wants. I think you still have a lot to learn before just jumping in and tuning with only one device. Even for some one experienced, the more tools the better. HOnestly you should get a logger and wideband then forget about the water injection untill you learn to tune the DSM correctly. Then after you've got a good tune dialed in you can use water injection to go further with timing and boost.

Ultimately the DSMlink is teh most user friendly, easiest to set up computer there is on the market period. Getting one of those should be your ultimate goal if you plan on doing any amount of tuning over an extended span of changing parts and fuel injector sizes when you start going bigger on the HP numbers. Plus it can log all the data you need to make changes, so if you can afford it...Wideband + DSMlink = you going faster and not blowing your car up.