Limitations of stock 7bolt head?

[boostednavyac]

This is a two part qestion, first question is, are the stock 7bolt headbolts the only major limitation (as far as parts failing)? Head was supposedly rebuilt with oem parts about 20xxx miles ago. I will be running an FP3052 on squirrel piss 91 pump gas and wastegate pressure (14psi) for now, only because i've read the stock headbolts will fail on me for my goals (e85 and 25+ psi). Questions is, if I leave my stock valves, springs, cams, etc, is my only limitation to run 25+ psi the headbolts? Second question is, Ive over reached my budget already, I don't want to buy all these new parts for the head as well, is it possible to just purchase the ARP headstuds, and install them without taking the head apart, and call it a day? Thanks again for the help, I tried searching but could not obtain definitive responses for what I was looking for. Major Mods that I will be running are as such~

FP3052 w/ tial 44mm WG w/ internal dump to 3'' Downpipe
evo3 exhaust mani
1250cc injectors
AFPR
255 fuel pump
ECMlink v3 full
Innovate Wideband
2g MAF, stock head (hence my question above) stock bottom end

 

[Chevy2g3]

I've known people who have installed ARP studs without removing the head; however I have never done it myself.

 

[forumboarder154]

I am running an FP3052 at 25 psi on 93 octane pump gas with a COMPLETELY stock motor for my dd for 10,000 miles now. Just make sure on ECMLink you are running a AFR close to 11.1 or richer because of the 91 octane. Anything over 25 psi is going to kill reliability on a stock motor though. In my opinion e85 isn't really worth the price and if the ethanol mixture is off from the gas station, you WILL lean out and blow your motor.

 

[boostednavyac]

I am running an FP3052 at 25 psi on 93 octane pump gas with a COMPLETELY stock motor for my dd for 10,000 miles now. Just make sure on ECMLink you are running a AFR close to 11.1 or richer because of the 91 octane. Anything over 25 psi is going to kill reliability though. In my opinion e85 isn't really worth the price and if the ethanol mixture is off, you WILL blow your motor.

I know many people who have had success in my area with e85, mostly because 91 octane is so limiting it almost forces us to use e85. I just cant stand the thought of being limited to low boost on the 3052 so I want to make sure i can run decent boost levels safely without causing serious damage to major parts. Thanks for the input.

I've known people who have installed ARP studs without removing the head; however I have never done it myself.

You wouldnt happen to know the process they used to do so would you?

 

[Cirus_93TSI]

you dont need to disassemble the valvetrain your head to install the arp studs, but you will need to pull the head off the block then re-install it in the new studs. so your most likely going to need a new valve cover gasket, a new head gasket if you have an oem one, you will need to reset your timing since the timing belt has to come off to pull the head.
and before anyone chimes in saying the head can stay on, yes its technically possible to change them out 1 at a time but i would not recommend it, and most here would agree.

you dont need the studs to run higher boost, its just piece of mind that your stock one are gone and will never stretch, break, or fail.
your limiting factors for running 25 psi arent going to be your engine components and hardware, the first is going to be your 2g maf. your going to hit the maximum air it can meter in the mid 400 hp range somewhere, unless you use the link to send a fake maf signal after a certain rpm. secondly unless the mods in your profile are out of date, your going to need to upgrade to a front mount intercooler, that turbo is going to heat soak a stock sidemount in about 2 seconds, not to mention its going to choke your airflow.

 

[boostednavyac]

you dont need to disassemble the valvetrain your head to install the arp studs, but you will need to pull the head off the block then re-install it in the new studs. so your most likely going to need a new valve cover gasket, a new head gasket if you have an oem one, you will need to reset your timing since the timing belt has to come off to pull the head.
and before anyone chimes in saying the head can stay on, yes its technically possible to change them out 1 at a time but i would not recommend it, and most here would agree.

you dont need the studs to run higher boost, its just piece of mind that your stock one are gone and will never stretch, break, or fail.
your limiting factors for running 25 psi arent going to be your engine components and hardware, the first is going to be your 2g maf. your going to hit the maximum air it can meter in the mid 400 hp range somewhere, unless you use the link to send a fake maf signal after a certain rpm. secondly unless the mods in your profile are out of date, your going to need to upgrade to a front mount intercooler, that turbo is going to heat soak a stock sidemount in about 2 seconds, not to mention its going to choke your airflow.

Thank you for the input, the mods are out of date, I forgot to mention that I am running an ETS FMIC. I do not plan on exceeding more than 400WHP, nor do I have a WHP # goal in mind, my goals are more about just putting out as much power as my motor can safely handle with the given parts that I have, if that makes sense. I just want to figure out a good amount of power i can make reliably with the given parts that i have assembled, as I have already exceeded my budget big time .

 

[Force Fed 4g63]

you dont need to disassemble the valvetrain your head to install the arp studs, but you will need to pull the head off the block then re-install it in the new studs. so your most likely going to need a new valve cover gasket, a new head gasket if you have an oem one, you will need to reset your timing since the timing belt has to come off to pull the head.
and before anyone chimes in saying the head can stay on, yes its technically possible to change them out 1 at a time but i would not recommend it, and most here would agree.

you dont need the studs to run higher boost, its just piece of mind that your stock one are gone and will never stretch, break, or fail.
your limiting factors for running 25 psi arent going to be your engine components and hardware, the first is going to be your 2g maf. your going to hit the maximum air it can meter in the mid 400 hp range somewhere, unless you use the link to send a fake maf signal after a certain rpm. secondly unless the mods in your profile are out of date, your going to need to upgrade to a front mount intercooler, that turbo is going to heat soak a stock sidemount in about 2 seconds, not to mention its going to choke your airflow.

He asked if it's possible, yes it's possible, just take your time and do it carefully. Many, many people have done it before with success.

 

[TSiAWD666]

I can't say there are any statistics but there's plenty of anecdotal evidence that the stud swap without head removal works. It worked for me for about 50k miles. I can't say if there is plenty to the contrary though. I haven't seen much but I'm sure it's failed a few folks. It's certainly slightly risky but I personally was ok with the risk considering the positive results I'd read about years ago.

The method you use is the reverse of the pattern used for stud install shown in the FSM. Actually now that I think of it I think the removal pattern is listed in the FSM too. So just do them one at a time in the removal order. I think I torqued them to the first level on install, then did another pass in the same install order torquing them to the final level, and then after heat cycling the engine for a day or so of mild driving I came back and re-torqued everything.

 

[TSITurbo95]

You don't need to remove the head to install ARP head studs. Just take off your valve cover, remove your old studs, but be sure to remove the oil in the stud holes before you install the new studs. Then torque them down in sequence. Recheck after a couple heat cycles, and your set.

 

[forumboarder154]

I would say if I had to guess I must be somewhere is the range of 375-400whp the FP3052@25psi. If you plan on running e85 you will be required to retune when the gas stations switch to e70 to e85 from colder months to warmer months. They sell an ethanol gauge somewhere to measure the mixture. Ethanol also eats up rubber so make sure you switch out those components to stainless or something. I thought about running e85, but it not worth it. In Michigan ethanol and switching everything to stainless and double pumper fuel pumps is expensive. Good luck though.

 

[Kapok6]

How are you guys getting the nut past the spring/valve seat without removal of the valves? I think there are at least two valves where the springs/seats get in the way from a clean install. Please advise.

 

[TSITurbo95]

The nut's don't have a problem clearing the springs. There are about 2-3 troublesom washers, which I tap down lightly until flat.

 

[boostednavyac]

Thanks for all the input everyone. I will look into the FSM and see, And i'll try varying my searches a little to see if there have been any unsucessful installs/vs sucessful ones. Also, I've been reading up on e85 vs not running it, and in a wilder climate like San Diego, the ability to have less knock and more octane seems worth the extra hassle of fine tuning and swapping out fuel filters more often, but to each their own. If i could have 93 pump gas i wouldnt even consider e85

 

[helluvadsm]

You don't need to remove the head to install ARP head studs. Just take off your valve cover, remove your old studs, but be sure to remove the oil in the stud holes before you install the new studs. Then torque them down in sequence. Recheck after a couple heat cycles, and your set.

Qft, I've done this four times. Taking off the head is not necessary. Just follow the the steps to on which bolts to take off, and then to install. Then recheck after some heat cycles.

The install of the nut onto the stud is a tedious process, have patience, or try moving the cams. Double check you have a washer on there as well. Good luck!

 

[Dyesuperman]

I would say if I had to guess I must be somewhere is the range of 375-400whp the FP3052@25psi. If you plan on running e85 you will be required to retune when the gas stations switch to e70 to e85 from colder months to warmer months. They sell an ethanol gauge somewhere to measure the mixture. Ethanol also eats up rubber so make sure you switch out those components to stainless or something. I thought about running e85, but it not worth it. In Michigan ethanol and switching everything to stainless and double pumper fuel pumps is expensive. Good luck though.

Some of this isn't true...It is not a requirement to retune during winter months, I didn't and the car is fine. Also, no need for a dual pumper setup..I am running one rewired walbro 255 with e85 and 28psi on my 7 blade hx35

 

[hypergenesis]

I know many people who have had success in my area with e85, mostly because 91 octane is so limiting it almost forces us to use e85. I just cant stand the thought of being limited to low boost on the 3052 so I want to make sure i can run decent boost levels safely without causing serious damage to major parts. Thanks for the input.



You wouldnt happen to know the process they used to do so would you?

Its really simple, Drain the Oil, Take off the valve cover, Take out the Head studs. Retorque in 3 intervals 3 times to the set Torque rating and your done easy as that

 

[bryanwheat]

IF you do them with out removing the head be sure that you do them one at a time. IF you take them all out than the head will lift from the gasket liquids will contaminate the surface. Pull the old bolt out, sit the washer in the recessed spot for it. Than you can thread the stud down thru the washer into the hole. This will eliminate the clearance problem with the springs.

 

[boostednavyac]

Bryanwheat, hypergenesis, and helluvadsm, thanks for the advice. I will keep those thoughts in mind

 

[MemphisGSX]

I installed the Headstuds about a month ago. I had never done it without taking the head off but it was a learning experience. However, it is very possible and even with inexperience it shouldnt take too long. Good Luck with it.

 

[Mr PopUps]

There is a reason there is so much torque on a head bolt... it keeps the head flat and to keep it from warping. Just because you dont see a problem 'now' doesnt mean you didnt warp the head. Do it right and do it once. Seriously! How many posters in this thread have actually built a 4G63 from the bottom up?

To answer your question, there is NOTHING wrong with the HEAD, its the bolts that you need to worry about. And please for all of our sakes do NOT EVER REUSE STOCK HEAD BOLTS ON A 7 BOLT!!! A 6 bolt, yes its fine.

Make sure you use the lube that comes with the studs or you will be buying a new block pretty fast, and you wont be able to get the torque you need.

 

[DSMBanditFZ6]

And what if you bought the head studs without the moly lube? Would white lithium grease suffice?

 

[bryanwheat]

And what if you bought the head studs without the moly lube? Would white lithium grease suffice?

No, use moly lube or clean oil.

 

[2slow4now]

And what if you bought the head studs without the moly lube? Would white lithium grease suffice?

Arp gives a spec and recommends you use their lube but says to use a moly based lubricant over just engine oil. You can probably pull it up on their site or if someone has instructions handy.

 

[Mr PopUps]

And what if you bought the head studs without the moly lube? Would white lithium grease suffice?

No, that is barely better than using Vaseline for this purpose, its just too thin viscosity wise

No, use moly lube or clean oil.

Arp gives a spec and recommends you use their lube but says to use a moly based lubricant over just engine oil. You can probably pull it up on their site or if someone has instructions handy.

+1 for both of you

 

[JayB12]

I'm just curious on what mileage you guys (boostednavyac and forumboarder154) are on with your 7-bolts. I've been wanting to achieve airflow levels like that but was always iffy on the integrity of my motor, being a DD and all. I'm all stock with ARP's, new head, and oil pump w/ 120k.