Knocking coming from head... VIDEOS

[ZenkaiRacerDsM]

Just my luck. First my valve seals, now this. I havent even gotten the chance to get the seals done. I have this loud knocking coming from what sounds like the head. It only does it at idle. When I drive around everything sounds normal and it drives fine. There may be a minimal amount of performance decrease from this. Its so small I can hardly tell. Also Ive noticed the rpm drops faster when I put the clutch in and it idles like 50 rpm lower at 700rpm compared to its normal solid 750. I think oil pressure may be lower while I am driving around. But I am uncertain about that as I have only driven it a few times since the noise started. Im thinking its something along the lines of a loose rocker or a fubared lifter. I pretty positive it isnt rod knock as I know all too well what that sounds like. What do you guys think? Also I forgot to mention that when I first heard it I was WOT in 3rd and in the upper rpm's I heard it buzzing. Im going to pull the valve cover whenever I have time and take a look. But what do you guys think?

 

[whowasthat]

use a peice of garden hose and find the source of the sound. it might help you find out the probem. hope it helps

 

[Mighty Mouse]

Let me know what happens. I have had this problem in my 90 gsx four a long time. I thought it was my lifters but didn't fix it because it wasn't bad. Know I just got new comp cams, turbo cams, so now I was planing on fixing it when I pull my old stalk cams. But if it is not the lifters then I am nervous about putting in new cams without fixing it.

 

[92awddsm]

You're wrong. At start up there isn't enough pressure to reach the lifters.

If there isnt enough pressure to reach the lifters, then the cams would starve and run dry also. Why dont you go learn about the mechanics of an engine so you can at least sound like you know what you are talking about.

 

[Defiant]

The "yes-it-is, No-it-isn't" train has now pulled into the termial. All bickerers shall now disembark.

Thick oil doesn't flow as well as warm oil. Its viscosity is higher, hence the higher indicated pressure at startup on any DSM. Thick oil won't get into teensy-tiny places as well as thin oil. However, it also won't get out of small clearances as easily, so the cooler oil that's in the lifters at startup will tend to want to stay in there. It's pretty much a wash.

So, now we can go on to argue about the next thing. Just before the lock hits.

 

[blue92laser]

Alright, well thats nice defiant, way to clear it up for the kids. Although, locking this forum wont bring any resolution to anyones problem. So, weather or not we bicker or argue, let it happen. Obviously the lesser knowledgable "mechanics/DSM owners" learn a thing or two while argueing there wrong point and recieving information from others. None the less, the whole point of this paragraph of ranting was to get across, LOCKING THIS FORUM WILL NOT SOLVE ANYONES PROBLEM HERE.

But back to the problem at hand.

As far as balance shaft bearings failing, Ive heard it in my car and other fellow DSM owners cars and, maybe its just the sound quality of the video, but I thought it didn't sound anything like that. Although, there maybe a few different sounds seeing as there are a few different bearings. Nonetheless, I still think its lifters.

So prove me wrong. Id like to find out what that noise was/is, cause every morning I listen to the video...haha

 

[NVRLOST]

It came to me. Its one of the damn balance shaft bearings again.

"Hello my name is ZenkaiRacerDsM and Im wasting everybodys time with my intelligence".

You know what? Why don't you drive your car off the biggest bridge you can find and by the way stay in the car.......
What happened to the loud Knocking I heard from the vid - So the loud knocking went away and now the car is just buzzing.
Hey, Guess what? My car sings when you rub the steering wheel and feather the clutch..........Wee! Someone please calm me down - does anybody believe this guy? Maybe it's just me.

v2ner - If your lifters are telling you they're full of carbon deposits Mopar Combustion Chamber Cleaner "WILL NOT SILENCE LIFTERS" - MCCC - will only clean carbon deposits on valves and the top of pistons (when used correctly) - which was mopars intent for it's usage. This is not a slam, just listing facts.

92awddsm & tommiman - you guys are not being specific enough because technically you both are right in a way. At initial startup oil pressure is not as high at the lifters, but only for the first few seconds until all oil galleys fill, etc. After that few seconds, especially only while the engine oil is still cold or brand new the oil pressure will be at it's highest at either idle or if the rpm is raised.
Just like Defiant said the lifter once filled will tend to stay filled (filled=fully expanded=full height) at warm-up because the oil has more viscosity meaning the lifter noise should go away. Usually happens if the check valve is bad allowing the oil to drain back into the head instead of staying in the lifter when the engine is not running. If the lifter is kind of clogged - usually due to very dirty oil the sound may be louder at startup and warm-up (cold=more viscosity=thicker=harder to fit into tiny spaces) and go away after the oil viscosity drops (hot=less viscosity=thins out=easier to fit into tiny spaces) - and usually at a higher rpm. I know most of you guys know this, I'm just trying to help in the interpretation.

I'm new at this, which is chatting in forums so please, don't anybody get offended. My people skills are probably not my greatest quality. If I'm ever wrong in a statement please somebody correct me using facts or experiences I can understand.

 

[v2ner]

sorry for this, but it did work, man.

 

[44pirate]

Check and see if the cam sprocket bolt isn't coming loose. Heard a similar sound on a fellow DSM'r and that was his problem.

 

[whowasthat]

why was my sig edited?

 

[ZenkaiRacerDsM]

Anything I said after the original posts were in addition to it. I can hear the buzzing while driving now (yes the knocking is still there at idle) most likley because its getting worse. Makes sense. Also makes sense to be a balance shaft bearing because the car still drives fine. Its probably spun, but not bad enough to knock the bearing out... yet. Whenever I hear the sound it sounds like its from the head to me too. But I looked at it and messed with things for almost an hour and nothing looked to be a miss with the lifters or rockers. Again I will post results when I remove the balance shafts. And NVRLOST I dont get what you are getting at but if its an attempt to insult... a forum is a hard way to offend me.

 

[Defiant]

why was my sig edited?

For breaking one of the rules that the link which now replaces it will direct you to.

None of them are complicated.

Neither are they flexible. That part didn't work out.

Take further questions to PMs.

 

[Spyder FX]

Did removing your balance shafts solve your problem? My engine sounds similar, except I have already replaced the rockers I thought were bad and all 16 lifters have been replaced with the revised 3rd generation ones.

 

[ZenkaiRacerDsM]

I took my car to the mitsu dealer cause I was being lazy and figured I might as well get some use out of my warranty. It was just as I thought. The balance shaft bearings spun. I got a completely new short block from the warranty . Just got it back today and it smokes like a mother####er. I think they just left the valve cover bolts loose. I hope thats it anyways... Good luck with your problem.

 

[Spyder FX]

Wish I had a warranty, It looks like i'm going to take the car apart tomorrow to see. I'm leaning towards a spun BS bearing though.

 

[Spyder FX]

Instead of starting a new thread, since I think it's my balance shaft bearings as well, i'll contribute to this one.

Anyways, after removing the pan today and inspecting it, we found some metal shavings on them. I'm assuming balance shaft, but I'm wondering if anyone that's had this problem could tell me what those shavings looked like compared to mine. Anyways heres the pics.

http://members.cox.net/jlewey1/jasonscar1.jpg

http://members.cox.net/jlewey1/jasonscar2.jpg

http://members.cox.net/jlewey1/jasonscar4.jpg

 

[DSM MAN]

It came to me. Its one of the damn balance shaft bearings again.

"Hello my name is ZenkaiRacerDsM and Im wasting everybodys time with my intelligence".

You know what? ....

Sounds like someone owes someone an apology. Anyway good to hear that you fixed the problem with the noise.

 

[ZenkaiRacerDsM]

Could also be rod bearings.

 

[screamin talon]

mine is making a similar noise , as the rpm increases the noise gets louder , sounds like its coming form the head. my car has been down for about 3 months so would that matter ?

 

[Big28 2gFWD]

didn't know the 4g63 came in a diesel?? definateky is not lifter tick! if it were the knock sound with increase in repetition with the rpm. graduly opening the throttle plate off the throttle body would be the best way to determine that. good luck

 

[DBR01]

... after removing the pan today and inspecting it, we found some metal shavings on them....

Holy crap man....that's alot of shavings....the picture qualiity prohibits me to see what color the shavings are so I won't throw anything out, did you get to the bal. shafts yet??? man this ones got me on the edge of my seat....let us know

 

[blue92laser]

I think I said a while back it was the balance shaft bearings. And, if I didnt when I listened to that video it was the same sound my buddies car was having. We were trying to figure it out and all of a sudden the motor stopped running, and damn timing belt flung up and ripped apart. I bet the dude 20 bucks that the oil pump was frozen. Low and behold, we snapped that friggan balace shaft right in half. I will try and get pictures of that. Good, news is that motors almost done and the block was reusable, 2200lb pressure washers work wonders for gettin little metal shaving out of the block. Have fun, you definately have to pull the motor. Is that a 2g? Hmm, 6 bolt swaps are fun!

haha

Oh yeh, you definately will have to take the motor completely apart, there are metal shavings eeeevveerrryyy where in that motor.

 

[Spyder FX]

We'll find out tonight if i do or not. My rod end caps aren't discolored from any heat damage, which would be caused by a bearing failure. If it's the front bearing shaft bearing, I'll cut the belt and call it good. I'm ready to remove the back one anyways, and if that's the spun one, oh well. I doubt I have those shavings everywhere, as all of them are roughly the same size and too big to fit in the screen of the pickup tube. I am going to flush my oil system out with some crappy dino oil and cut apart the filter just to make sure though. I dont think it'll be that bad, as I still have my timing belt and oil pump working :laugh:

 

[screamin talon]

well mine went from a rod knock due to failed bearings but last night it just locked up ! the starter couldnt even turn it over , hopefully its nothing too major . maybe we can just get the bearings replaced and the crank polished up . i just dropped $2500 bucks on a tranny and other little stuff to get it back running and now this . now i remember why i wanna sell the dam thing :thumbdown

 

[Spyder FX]

Well I guess a bs bearing was spun, but then again, so was a rod bearing on the #2 and #3 was getting there... So I had contacted a guy about building me a 6 bolt. I'm going to go ahead and get a built bottom end, not that I planned on it so early, but oh well. I give thanks to Steve (flytalon93) for helping me tear apart the motor to find whats wrong, and the guy I contacted about building my block is Wes Hess. Maybe some of you older guys know who he is... Anyways, i'm not mad because I expected the worst. Just whenever you buy a car that someone says they have 26k on the engine, don't trust that rebuild went right....

 

[flytalon93]

Anything for a fellow dsmer. I am just sorry of what we found and that I don't have enough time to help finish the project. But have to look towards the future. When that 6built is installed it will be a killer.

Steve