Is this opinion true about DSMLINK?

[swing lo]

I read this on another message board and wanted to know if this guy's opinion was worth thinking about. Here it is=

What are you asking me to back up? The fact that the DSMlink isn't like a standalone? For instance if you wanted to put an Accufab or BBK 75mm thottlebody on your DSM you would most likely need a Ford Munstang IAC and TPS. Now the factory dsm ISC is stepping motor versus the ford IAC which is a standard solenoid. With a "standalone" it would be possible to control the duty cycle and set the pulse width frequency of the output to work along with the ford IAC. Plus it would be a simple task for a "standalone" to calibrate to the ford TPS.

As for the DSMlink comparing to Hondata, the interface of the Hondata is far more superior. The hondata S-200 which is available for wide range of OBD0 and OBDI honda ECU's, also has the ability to datalog g-forces so you can keep track of acceleration, braking and handling. The new Hondata K-pro is a more advanced system which was developed for the OBDII K20 RSX and Civic Si. It allows you control over the variable cam timing so you can change the cam angle from your laptop. Also you can simply set the OBDII rediness codes to "YES" so in states that require emissions testing the car will pass even if none of the factory emissions hardware is in place.

Basicly I don't like tuning the DSMlink for the simple fact that you can't tune with the standard 3-dimensional map, but by setting up the VE table in single point 1000rpm increments then adjusting fuel with single point 500rpm increments. Now I'm not saying that people shouldn't buy the DSMlink, I'm just saying that don't say that it's something it's not. Like I said eariler I believe the DSMlink to be a reliable product and it's nice that someone came out with a product that takes advantage of the factory EPROM especially since most people are unable to write and burn the rom's themselves.

As for the value of the 1g unit, I don't think they are offering enough of a product for $600 seeing as how most of the 1g DSM chip source code is readily available. So a little know how, rom burner, hex editor, and a list of addresses ( http://users.wpi.edu/~ktarry/dsmtech/dsmromedit.html )you could be burning your own EPROMs.

 

[Nos~4G63]

If you are comparing DSMlink to a standalone, it doesnt hold a candle.

 

[Quasimondo]

I just have an issue with that last part. Sure you can make your own chip with a little bit of hex know how, but unless you have a piggyback device, any change you make, requires a new chip. Different MAS? New chip. Larger injectors? New chip. Want to change your stutterbox and/or rev limit? New chip. In theory, DSM Link pays for itself in the cost of new chips after six changes.

Arguing dsmlink vs standalones is apples vs. oranges. Arguing dsmlink vs hondata is apples vs. oranges. As far as tuning using a 3d map vs VE sliders, that's a matter of preference. Seeing that all of the tuning that we normally do is for when the vehicle is operating at WOT, I don't see any need to mess with the maps that handle cruise and partial throttle, especially when they're fine as is.

 

[93awdhaitian]

My best freind has one and i dont really care for it b/c we have a guy in our club that can do the same, plus stuff like TMO plus more with the use of chips. And my boy just ran 10.55 with w/o a stand alone and just the use of my friends chip here is the proof. Stacy 10 sec run

 

[beat90tsi]

The advantage to DSMlink is that it lets you adjust certain parameters (injector size, MAF, rev limit etc) and have datalogging capabilities without sacrificing any driveability. Any standalone is going to be a PITA for a daily, DSMlink is no sweat for a daily.

 

[danl]

Arguing dsmlink vs standalones is apples vs. oranges. Arguing dsmlink vs hondata is apples vs. oranges. As far as tuning using a 3d map vs VE sliders, that's a matter of preference. Seeing that all of the tuning that we normally do is for when the vehicle is operating at WOT, I don't see any need to mess with the maps that handle cruise and partial throttle, especially when they're fine as is.

You can use a Romulator or Ostritch like you would for Hondata to tune the car real time. Also you can get rewriteable chips that can be written over 1000 times or so at $6 apiece. I have 3 of these chips with different settings that I may or may not want. They can also be burned in a car with a labtop and a USB port with a popular style of burner if I wanted to go that route.

 

[Hal]

You can use a Romulator or Ostritch like you would for Hondata to tune the car real time. Also you can get rewriteable chips that can be written over 1000 times or so at $6 apiece. I have 3 of these chips with different settings that I may or may not want. They can also be burned in a car with a labtop and a USB port with a popular style of burner if I wanted to go that route.

But you're still limited to the shitty oem logger for data logging.

People often forget there is more to DSMLink than just "settings" and those who whine about "3d" maps have no clue what DSMLink is about or how it works.

If they did, they wouldn't worry about it.

Guys have run 9's in DSMLink, so the lack of "3d" maps doesn't appear to be much of a constraint.

Hal

 

[HighPSI TSi Guy]

But you're still limited to the shitty oem logger for data logging.

People often forget there is more to DSMLink than just "settings" and those who whine about "3d" maps have no clue what DSMLink is about or how it works.

If they did, they wouldn't worry about it.

Guys have run 9's in DSMLink, so the lack of "3d" maps doesn't appear to be much of a constraint.

Hal

and the GCC has gone 8s. look at how primitive that thing is. DSMlink is a great product, but it doesn't hold a candle to hondata, who i wish would cross over into our market... a lot more could be done with the power DSMLink has..

i agree highly with the original poster.

i'll probably end up running it eventually, though, as it is really the best option short of a standalone, no matter how lacking in features it is.. if there's nothing better i'm stuck with it

if it really was about being "enough" as you like to say, then we'd all be running hacked MAFs, home depot boost controllers, and old school AFCs

 

[pboglio]

I read this on another message board and wanted to know if this guy's opinion was worth thinking about. Here it is=

As for the value of the 1g unit, I don't think they are offering enough of a product for $600 seeing as how most of the 1g DSM chip source code is readily available. So a little know how, rom burner, hex editor, and a list of addresses ( http://users.wpi.edu/~ktarry/dsmtech/dsmromedit.html )you could be burning your own EPROMs.

Right. Hondata K-100 is $600 which comes with NO datalogging, good one. For $995 you get K-Pro standalone. Last I checked thats about $150 more than the DSMLINK with an EPROM ECU combined. Hondata doesn't sell an engine management system for a DSM so that arguement is irrelevant. DSMLINK is about 90% of a full standalone. RPM resolution for FUEL and Timing could be finer, sure. Part throttle fuel & timing control would be nice, sure. Its a reward vs. cost thing. I think the law of diminishing returns applies heavily here. Only product that compares to DSMLINK applicable to a DSM is something like AEM which runs $600-$800 more. Also, some people like me could not mentally cope with the huge data matrix of a 3d standalone. Guys that give a shit about part throttle tweaking buy an AEM. They also would be damned lucky to approach the OEM part throttle driveability anyhow, which is the entire point of DSMLINK. WOT settings are where the DSMs are screwed up, not part throttle operation. Fix what is broken, not what works already. There is always room for improvement and DSMLINK is already on their much enhanced V2 version. What about the product is not to like?

 

[HighPSI TSi Guy]

DSMLINK is about 90% of a full standalone.

you've just disquilified yourself from this arguement. just read from here out.

 

[pboglio]

you've just disquilified yourself from this arguement. just read from here out.

Hahaha,

I'll tell you what. When you start capitalizing the first letter of the first word in a sentence and when you learn how to spell "disqualified", then I'll "disquilified" myself. Naw, forget that, I think I'll stick around.

Lets see, you just stated you don't even have DSMLINK, real good, you know from first hand experience how DSMLINK operates. I'm impressed already. You state the GCC is primitive, again, you probably have never run the VPC/GCC combo. Another good one.

Don't even worry about a standalone, you couldn't use 1/3 of its capability.

 

[Tallen]

Hahaha,

I'll tell you what. When you start capitalizing the first letter of the first word in a sentence and when you learn how to spell "disqualified", then I'll "disquilified" myself. Naw, forget that, I think I'll stick around.

Lets see, you just stated you don't even have DSMLINK, real good, you know from first hand experience how DSMLINK operates. I'm impressed already. You state the GCC is primitive, again, you probably have never run the VPC/GCC combo. Another good one.

Don't even worry about a standalone, you couldn't use 1/3 of its capability.

If your both going to turn this into pissing match, don't. Attacking his spelling is lame at best, PM each other to work this out, give each other a big hug, shed a tear, and lets move on dammit.

 

[HighPSI TSi Guy]

Hahaha,

I'll tell you what. When you start capitalizing the first letter of the first word in a sentence and when you learn how to spell "disqualified", then I'll "disquilified" myself. Naw, forget that, I think I'll stick around.

Lets see, you just stated you don't even have DSMLINK, real good, you know from first hand experience how DSMLINK operates. I'm impressed already. You state the GCC is primitive, again, you probably have never run the VPC/GCC combo. Another good one.

Don't even worry about a standalone, you couldn't use 1/3 of its capability.

why i even bother with this board i don't know.. so naive.. i've used them all, and i know how to work them all.. so instead of thinking up all the things that i "probably" have or havent done, how bout you screw on your head and try to learn something from the intelligent people in this thread before speaking.

DSMlink is about 1% of a standalone, not even close to 90.

 

[myblack98gst]

I just recently got DSM link v.2.5 I love it.. so much better then tuning with the AFC..

I think what alot of peoples problems is that they "THINK" they have to have more options. since the factory ECU is set up for timing/fuel maps for a turbo car it is a much better starting point than what a honda has.

I have seen 500+whp dyno runs out of DSM's using the stock ECU. and MUCH MUCH more using DSMlink.

I got it to resolve major driving issues I had. and it worked perfectly for that. no more CEL's, no more missfire (6bolt swap), no more choppy idle (hackedmaf, 720cc injectors. and much more reliable logging than a palmpilot could do.

on top if that most standalones do not iclude safegaurds... my friends autronic runs the maps off the throttle ONLY, no knock input, no o2 input. so if something happens and the car goes lean it just goes lean and hurts the motor. where as with DSM link it will atleast try to reatard the timing to prevent the detonation.



so unless you yourself have a car that has gone beyond what DSM link can handle please do not dog it because you wasted money on a standalone for your 400whp car.

I am flowing 42 lbs/min @ 20psi on stock head, cams, intake manifold and pump gas an almost even 17-19* timing and get virtually no knock. But I guess that doesn't matter because it is DSM link it was designed in the stoneage.

 

[pboglio]

...See what I mean, can't capitalize or break up a paragraph into proper sentences. Hey, at least you got "intelligent" right.

...Looks like half these guys have never run the DSMLINK, yet are arguing it sucks. A few others want to play EPROM roulette, great, a step backwards. I'll listen when I hear an intelligent arguement about it from a current user and not some biased garbage from non-users.

...Hondata is not available for DSMs and its currently more expensive than DSMLINK. AEM is twice the cost of DSMLINK. I never commented on their operation since I've never run those setups. I did comment on their price and availability, which is self-evident.

...I'm defending DSMLINK from the point of a user, not from somebody who theorizes that it sucks. Buy a standalone if you want to, its a free country. I guess its not a free country since somebody is telling me I can't post. Maybe the Canadians will take me in

 

[civic619]

I personally have used EMS and DSMLINK. Let me tell you, DSMLINK is straight to the point and easy to use for the average daily driving tuner. EMS is somewhat difficult, yet the skys the limit with that platform.

 

[Bastard1g]

I read this on another message board and wanted to know if this guy's opinion was worth thinking about. Here it is=

What are you asking me to back up? The fact that the DSMlink isn't like a standalone? For instance if you wanted to put an Accufab or BBK 75mm thottlebody on your DSM you would most likely need a Ford Munstang IAC and TPS. Now the factory dsm ISC is stepping motor versus the ford IAC which is a standard solenoid. With a "standalone" it would be possible to control the duty cycle and set the pulse width frequency of the output to work along with the ford IAC. Plus it would be a simple task for a "standalone" to calibrate to the ford TPS.

As for the DSMlink comparing to Hondata, the interface of the Hondata is far more superior. The hondata S-200 which is available for wide range of OBD0 and OBDI honda ECU's, also has the ability to datalog g-forces so you can keep track of acceleration, braking and handling. The new Hondata K-pro is a more advanced system which was developed for the OBDII K20 RSX and Civic Si. It allows you control over the variable cam timing so you can change the cam angle from your laptop. Also you can simply set the OBDII rediness codes to "YES" so in states that require emissions testing the car will pass even if none of the factory emissions hardware is in place.

Basicly I don't like tuning the DSMlink for the simple fact that you can't tune with the standard 3-dimensional map, but by setting up the VE table in single point 1000rpm increments then adjusting fuel with single point 500rpm increments. Now I'm not saying that people shouldn't buy the DSMlink, I'm just saying that don't say that it's something it's not. Like I said eariler I believe the DSMlink to be a reliable product and it's nice that someone came out with a product that takes advantage of the factory EPROM especially since most people are unable to write and burn the rom's themselves.

As for the value of the 1g unit, I don't think they are offering enough of a product for $600 seeing as how most of the 1g DSM chip source code is readily available. So a little know how, rom burner, hex editor, and a list of addresses ( http://users.wpi.edu/~ktarry/dsmtech/dsmromedit.html )you could be burning your own EPROMs.

Heer is tha hole thred 4 u gy's, bee niceee

http://www.jaxstreetscene.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=4436&st=15

 

[danl]

But you're still limited to the shitty oem logger for data logging.

People often forget there is more to DSMLink than just "settings" and those who whine about "3d" maps have no clue what DSMLink is about or how it works.

If they did, they wouldn't worry about it.

Guys have run 9's in DSMLink, so the lack of "3d" maps doesn't appear to be much of a constraint.

Hal

DSMLink really needs the ability to operate at higher load levels. This is where it is really lacking compared to say the AEM.

 

[Intrusive97gsx]

There is no reason for everyone to get their panties in bunch over what I said. Swing lo was comparing DSMlink to a standalone and I stated different. Also I'm fully aware of how to tune and have tuned with the DSMlink along with many other engine management systems(many of the www.carolinadsm.com memebers can vouch for me). Also I know that it's pointless to compare the Hondata to DSMlink as it is the same as comparing the DSMlink to a standalone, but I was trying to make a point for the original poster. I told him that I was sure that he would be happy with the DSMlink because it was reliable and it is more than enough for most of the DSM community, but in some case people would like to have a more flexible platform.

The Hondata S-200 is $620 and it is only a matter of opinion that I feel it's a better unit than the DSMlink for it's application but again that's apples to oranges. Also there is an additional cost of a romulator to be able to program the S-200 chips which would run you $180. And yes the K-pro is $995 but that system for comparision goes beyond both the s-200 and the DSMlink. So what does this mean? All these products have a strong market, they are reliable, people buying them are comfortable with the prices, they do what most of the users are buying them for, and there was no reason for me to try and compare them until someone wanted to try and compare the DSMlink to a "standalone". Might I add that there are some pretty basic standalone engine management systems so my use of this phrase was based on what I thought the original poster of this thread had formulated into his idea of a standalone, an impossible peice of equipment to use costing thousands of dollars. All I have to say is Megasquirt owns... :laugh:

 

[Hal]

DSMLink really needs the ability to operate at higher load levels. This is where it is really lacking compared to say the AEM.

It's not load based period.

Fuel is metered based on measured air flow, not what the load level is.

 

[Syndicate13]

All I have to say is Megasquirt owns... :laugh:

If you have the knowledge and skill to get the car to run at all. Not perform better than before the Megasquirt but just to simply stay idling. Megasquirt is awesome for people who have no options for their cars, we just installed one on a friends Scirocco with a turbo G60 swap. But for 90% of people here DSMlink is more than enough for their needs. It is not a standalone, nor do the fine folks that created it claim it to be. It is clearly a cut above tuning with a logger and AFC, especially on a 2G. I bought DSMlink for it's ease of use and it's capability. My ECU was already socketed so I just plopped the DSMlink chip in and the car fired right up and drove me to the store. I didn't have to spend hours getting the car to run under cruise and part throttle. In the end people will always argue over things and some, no matter how much evidence is shown, will never change their viewpoints on things.

 

[TargeT]

DSMLink really needs the ability to operate at higher load levels. This is where it is really lacking compared to say the AEM.

you found this out on your stock 90 dsm?

i've got a 2.3, 52 trim & tons of other goodies, what higher load levels are there?

DSMlink is exactly what you need for a DSM. anything else is just bling money so you can say "i have an ems" or in other words "I have too much money and spend it on stupid shit"

 

[Intrusive97gsx]

If you have the knowledge and skill to get the car to run at all. Not perform better than before the Megasquirt but just to simply stay idling. Megasquirt is awesome for people who have no options for their cars, we just installed one on a friends Scirocco with a turbo G60 swap. But for 90% of people here DSMlink is more than enough for their needs. It is not a standalone, nor do the fine folks that created it claim it to be. It is clearly a cut above tuning with a logger and AFC, especially on a 2G. I bought DSMlink for it's ease of use and it's capability. My ECU was already socketed so I just plopped the DSMlink chip in and the car fired right up and drove me to the store. I didn't have to spend hours getting the car to run under cruise and part throttle. In the end people will always argue over things and some, no matter how much evidence is shown, will never change their viewpoints on things.

Sorry for the confusion but I don't even own a megasquirt, but if I did I'm sure that I could get it to work well on my car. I guess sarcasm is something that's not easily interpreted over the internet. Anyways the megasquirt can work but I would take a DSMlink over it any day. Too many people get the idea that all "standalones" are expensive and do the same things. I was just using the megasquirt as an example of a cheap and basic "standalone".

There isn't a perfect EMS out there so everyone needs to get over it, find what they think fits them best, and enjoy themselves. The majority of car manufactures today use flash upgradable ECU's because nothing is ever perfect. In fact Subaru, Toyota, BMW, and many other manufactures have all shown us that BIG mistakes can be found in factory ECM code and that it's better (cheaper) to have an upgradeable system than to replace the ECM. Besides factory ECU's are normally conservatively tuned for longevity and not maximum performance because their goal is to have the car pass through the warranty period without any problems. So there is no perfect EMS, figure out what looks good to you and buy it.

Swing Lo,
Like I said on the other forum, DSMlink would be an excellent choice for what's available on the market and I'm sure you'll be happy with it. But I hope TargeT's comments were directed to you because it would be pretty bad to say that DSMlink is the best for everyone on DSMTuners.

 

[TargeT]

But I hope TargeT's comments were directed to you because it would be pretty bad to say that DSMlink is the best for everyone on DSMTuners.

it was directed at mr stock 90' DanL

DSMlink will work wonders on a stock car as well as a modded car



there's no catch all, everyone has special needs (every CAR has speical needs.. mine especialy ) but for DSM's i'd say the Link is as close as it gets.

 

[Bastard1g]

I was thinking about getting a dsmlink since I have a 95 eprom in my 98 but the only issue is that I allready bought a keydiver and I dont wanna throw away 100 bucks. maybe I will just keep the chip and buy a dsmlink. what do you think intrusive? cause I dont have a logger or safc. and dont forget to call me every now and then mane.