Is my timing off???? Motor does not run right

[flyinghighlm]

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r223/flyinghighlm/littlecamshot.jpg


Is my timing off or is this right??
I ask this b/c I have done a full rebuild on the car but the motor runs like shit. I have spark, fuel, compression, no boost leaks but the motor will not idle for crap or produce vacum. The engine actually vibrates very badly??? Any ideas. Can get more pics if it helps

 

[flyinghighlm]

Another pic to help

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r223/flyinghighlm/Camshot.jpg

 

[BISHILVR]

Allllrighty then! Well, where to start. First your lines on your cam sprockets should be horizonal not vertical, to check timing. The lines should be sitting straight across from each other and parallel to the head gasket surface, then the dowel pins that are in the sprockets should be facing straight up. In this position the crankshaft should be at exactly top dead center according to the notch in the pulley as it lines up with the "TDC" mark on the plastic cover behind it. Actually you want to bring the pulley to the TDC mark first and then check the cam sprockets for alignment as I mentioned earlier on, if they dont line up at that point, then turn the crank again until the crank is at tdc again, and then check to see if the sprockets line up, if they dont line up either time exactly as mentioned then they are out of time. Try this and take a picture of them again with the dowels facing straight up and the lines directly across from each other, while taking a picture of the timing marks on the crank and we can then tell you more.

 

[flyinghighlm]

Will do but I have to take care of the kids that come by and make them fatter and feed em candy (girlfriend said no more car tonight) Will do first thing tomorrow

 

[flyinghighlm]

Allllrighty then! Well, where to start. First your lines on your cam sprockets should be horizonal not vertical, to check timing. The lines should be sitting straight across from each other and parallel to the head gasket surface, then the dowel pins that are in the sprockets should be facing straight up. In this position the crankshaft should be at exactly top dead center according to the notch in the pulley as it lines up with the "TDC" mark on the plastic cover behind it. Actually you want to bring the pulley to the TDC mark first and then check the cam sprockets for alignment as I mentioned earlier on, if they dont line up at that point, then turn the crank again until the crank is at tdc again, and then check to see if the sprockets line up, if they dont line up either time exactly as mentioned then they are out of time. Try this and take a picture of them again with the dowels facing straight up and the lines directly across from each other, while taking a picture of the timing marks on the crank and we can then tell you more.

Well alright looks like I have something to do, I get the part about the lines being horizontal. Check 1 for me

What exactly are the dowel pins again??? Dumb questions just do want to screw something up.


Ok so I got this in the right order,
1- Turn the crank until it is at TDC
2-Check the cam sprocket for the little lines touch
3-Repeat step 2 just to make sure
4- Take picture and repost
5- Have a beer and bi*** at the car

Let me know if I got this right

 

[Quasimondo]

With the #1 piston at TDC, the cam sprockets should look like this:

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The timing marks on the cam sprockets should like up with each other and with the top surface of the cylinder head, like this:

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[flyinghighlm]

clear as a bell, will print out tomorrow and take a look at it. Once again thanks for the help and not treating me like a complete idiot

 

[steve]

Reading the VFAQ until you understand it always helps you have a happy ending when dealing with the timing belt.

http://www.vfaq.com/mods/timingbelt-1G.html

 

[daren_p]

flyinghighlm, you must have had someone do the rebuild/put the timing belt on? If not you are extremely lucky you didn't take out a good number of valves.

 

[Shaggy_357]

Just another tip, when you do set the timing (assuming you need to), make sure you rotate the engine by hand a couple times, just to make sure you aren't going to be greeted by mashed valves.

 

[flyinghighlm]

well after I looked at it all, my intake jumped a tooth....how does it jump after I know it was set right or at least think it was....my buddy its a mitsu mech, he did it all
I will post pics in a bit

 

[flyinghighlm]

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r223/flyinghighlm/blurrycampic.jpg

kinda blurry but you get the point

another

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r223/flyinghighlm/camshot.jpg

 

[flyinghighlm]

flyinghighlm, you must have had someone do the rebuild/put the timing belt on? If not you are extremely lucky you didn't take out a good number of valves.

what makes you say that, I had the head rebuilt and I put it on but someone else did the timing

 

[steve]

Without a reference or a picture looking dead square on, it's difficult to be sure where your marks are. Those would line up with a small rotation of the crank. The question then is do they line up with the top of the head at that point and where are all the rest of the marks?

Steve

 

[flyinghighlm]

all of the other marks are on expect for the 2 on the cams.....the do not face each other like they should...think I am going to just pull it all apart make some phone calls and see if i can get some more help si i do not toast the motor

Thanks again.

 

[GVR4592]

Read through that link that was posted from the VFAQ, I bet you could do it yourself if you read it a couple times.

 

[daren_p]

what makes you say that, I had the head rebuilt and I put it on but someone else did the timing

Whats makes me say you must have had someone else do the timing belt? Simply saying if you did it yourself & aren't sure how it should line up, you got extremely luckey as to not cause damage. Are you sure its really off a tooth, that pic doesn't tell all that much. You have to make sure the crank pulley mark is lined up 100% with the T mark on the timing cover first (or better yet pull the crank pulley off and verify the proper timing marks under the timing cover, as the marks on the cover can be slightly off or the crank pully can be coming apart). Then when your 100% sure the crank marks line up, look at the cam sprocket marks, make sure the dowl pins are at the 12 oclock, if not you will have to rotate the crank again till it lines up. Hold a straight edge across the cam sprockets to the center of the bolts holding the sprockets on. Do not eyeball, this isn't accurate enough as the marks can line up but not be parallel with the bolt centers/level with the head surface, which you need it to be. Another indicator of bad TB alignment is your VAC at idle, have you noticed it has dropped alot since the TB install, what vacuum are you seeing at idle & what is your idle rpm?

 

[flyinghighlm]

Read through that link that was posted from the VFAQ, I bet you could do it yourself if you read it a couple times.

I have read it twice now so its starting to absorb, I am just to print it off here at work.


As far as the vac issue thats what pointed me towards the timing issue, when the car does idle its around 600ish rpm but bounces around from 400 to 800, with very little vac pressure, about 6-8 on the gauge (aftermarket)....I was hoping though it was a massive boost leak, checked all that sealed up one big leak aorund the TB and that was it

 

[daren_p]

With the cams your running your VAC at factory idle should be like double what your reading. More then likely your off a tooth or two. Read though the FAQ a few more times until you understand it 100% & go check those timing marks. I would probably remove the accessory belts and crank pulley atleast to see the proper timing marks, if you want to verify all the marks you will have to remove your lower timing belt cover as well, which probably isn't a bad idea at this point, goodluck, keep us posted & takes some pics if you want to verify what you find

 

[BISHILVR]

Or you could remove the number one spark plug, insert a screwdriver and bring it to top dead center that way.

 

[flyinghighlm]

well heres a update...checked compression and timing...retimed the car and it runs better but something is not right...well i thought next well it is a new head and all so i did a compression test and got 150-151-150-152....this is where it gets interesting, at idle the car is up to 10 or so, run the rpms to 3K or so and it jumps to 24 or so....but i never build boost just a shit ton of vac pressure....kinda stumped but i am going to leave it alone tonight and take a fresh set of eyes on it this weekend....could this have somehting to do with my waste gate, or the waste gate solenoid???