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Is it time for an FMIC or will I be ok if I just get an UICP

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EagleTalonTim

EagleTalonTim

15+ Year Contributor
830
13
Jan 10, 2007
Brighton, Tennessee
Ok, here is the deal. I have been having a hell of a time tuning my 1g DSM for my EVO III 16g @ 20psi. My profile has all my mods. Do I need to get a FMIC or will I be ok with just a hard pipe UICP? Right around 4k, I am seeing knock but if I turn up my SAFC to + 12% in that range and higher, the knock does not show up as much. My Eprom is programmed by Jeff at DSMChips and has all the adjustments included to match my setup. I am just wondering if this could be one of my problems since I am still running on the stock 1g IC tubing.
 
What i would suggest is either FMIC or a Supra side mount and how much psi are you running?
 
I've not heard of hard pipes offering any kind of a performance gain. Go with a bigger side mount or a FMIC and save your money by avoiding hard pipes.
 
Sounds to me you're probably in need of a fmic or upgraded sidemount at this point. Why dont you turn it down to 18psi and see if you can tune it out. Aso what fuel are you using?

I have a really hard time running more than 18psi running on piss AZ 91 octane with my evo3 without knocking and I do have a front mount.

oh and as far as the stock ic pipes being the reason youre knocking, i highly doubt it. regardless, hard pipes are great upgrade and they should be done sooner than later.
 
The stock ic pipes can swell while boosting slightly reducing the spool and initial pressure. That and they are small. Plus hard ic pipes sound awsome. LOL

Hard ic pipes are a massive improvement for my starion.
 
Since I run 93 octane all the time, would the hard pipes possibly improve my tune a bit? I am just trying to figure out where the knock at 4k is coming from. I only see this knock in third or forth gear. First and second are fine. Is 20 psi with the EVO III 16g too much with the 560 injectors? My IDC is only at 70% +/- 3% at 6500 rpm at WOT
 
Hard pipes will not help with your tune, possibly response time from the turbo or a less chance of boost leaks. They make hard pipe kits for the stock intercooler but if your going for 300+ hp then your maxing out your side mount. cxracing makes a bolt on intercooler kit for like $300 that comes with the piping preformed. Yes cxracing is a knock off company but you cant mess up intercoolers to much, bar and plate, no magic to it. Upgrade your supporting mods before shooting for the moon.

EagleTalonTim said:
Since I run 93 octane all the time, would the hard pipes possibly improve my tune a bit? I am just trying to figure out where the knock at 4k is coming from. I only see this knock in third or forth gear. First and second are fine. Is 20 psi with the EVO III 16g too much with the 560 injectors? My IDC is only at 70% +/- 3% at 6500 rpm at WOT
Click to expand...

For what it sounds like your trying to achieve 560cc is not enough, 650cc is probably where you need to be.
 
When I got my FMIC, I got the CXRacing 28x6x2.5 After I installed it knock went away all together with 93, and a little oct. booster. the max I got was at 6.5K which was 7 counts without the booster. I am up to 18 psi on the 14b.

It made quite a difference when it started getting warm, and I had the stock side mount 16 psi, It'd pull timing back to 12 with 30 counts of knock. the stock made spool up time non existent when I put on the FMIC pressure drop was from 16psi to 10-11 psi.

I do need to short route the hot side which I haven't done yet though. But wow what a difference it made its impossible to heat soak this thing even when it was 93 deg. outside it was cool as the fridge.
 
I run a 16g on my talon at 25+ psi and all stock intake piping, and intercooler with no problems, oh i do run e-85 also. I live in az and couldn't get 20 psi with a huge front mount, with any amount of timing at all. The car was faster at 17 psi and a few * more timing. I ripped the whole setup out, and replaced it with stock. Hot wired my walbro, got some huge injectors, burned a couple chips, and never looked back. I run more timing at 25 psi and e-85, than i could at 15 psi and 91 octane. For people that don't know, most of the summer in az is 110*+, with temps 2' off the tarmac at 130+.
 
snakeyes711 said:
Thats exactly why I didn't get a huge intercooler this one is rated for up to 400+ hp.
Click to expand...

My point was that even with really good intercooling, it wasn't feasable for me to run 20 psi on 91 octane in hellish ambient temps. Whereas, with e-85 i do better on a stock setup than people with great intercooling and pumpgas.
 
Ive gotta agree with donniekak. My iats are never above 115-130 in Tucson Az on a hot summer day. I also have a front mount. On 91 i just cant run more than 16-17 without knocking. I had to pull a major amount of timing. so i switched to e85 and problem solved.

Since you are in Tennessee, you have better gas and cooler temps. which is probably why you got as high boost as you did. Throw a decent front mount on there, get meth injection or run E85. your problem will be solved. With a rewired wally, you probably arnt maxing out your injecetors yet.
 
its always time for a FMIC! screw the stocker and screw the side mount.... do it right the first time! i even run a front mount even if i only have a ported 14b.
 
KaLo_o said:
its always time for a FMIC! screw the stocker and screw the side mount.... do it right the first time! i even run a front mount even if i only have a ported 14b.
Click to expand...

A 10.8 quarter has been run on a 16g with no intercooler, just the turbo discharge run straight to the throttle body. For my setup the only thing a fmic does is add lag. When i decide to put a larger turbo on my car i will run a fmic and larger piping more for less flow restriction than knock prevention. Alcohol takes a very rich mixture and cools better than gasoline, so not only is it higher octane, it actually cools the intake charge.
 
Doing anything like Meth or Water injection on a stock SMIC is just a band-aid fix for a lacking intake charge temp cooling system.

If you are strapped for cash, an Ebay or Punishment FMIC kit will do the job fine. But be warned, that it might cause some overheating issues due to the core design.

That being said, I went with an ETS FMIC because they use cores that are made to flow through to the radiator even though they are bar and plate, not tube and fin. I believe they use PTE cores but don't quote me on this.

It is natural for an engine to get more knock in the longer gears. That is why when you do just 3rd gear pulls to tune, you are also supposed to go through 1-4 (or whatever you feel safe with) to see if it knocks from shorter or longer gearing.
 
BoostFrenzy said:
Doing anything like Meth or Water injection on a stock SMIC is just a band-aid fix for a lacking intake charge temp cooling system.

If you are strapped for cash, an Ebay or Punishment FMIC kit will do the job fine. But be warned, that it might cause some overheating issues due to the core design.

That being said, I went with an ETS FMIC because they use cores that are made to flow through to the radiator even though they are bar and plate, not tube and fin. I believe they use PTE cores but don't quote me on this.

It is natural for an engine to get more knock in the longer gears. That is why when you do just 3rd gear pulls to tune, you are also supposed to go through 1-4 (or whatever you feel safe with) to see if it knocks from shorter or longer gearing.
Click to expand...

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/drag-strip/335310-10-6-125-evoiii-16g-awd-auto.html We all know lucas english just bandaids cars and rigs them all up for crappy builds that don't go fast.
 
habitatguy187 said:
And a fmic is different how????


:aha: Oh yeah more pressure drop.
Click to expand...

If you actually get a decent core, pressure drop is minimal. This is why the big guys go to Garrett cores. They cool like MAD and have minimal pressure drop.


donniekak said:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/drag-strip/335310-10-6-125-evoiii-16g-awd-auto.html We all know lucas english just bandaids cars and rigs them all up for crappy builds that don't go fast.
Click to expand...

That car had no intercooler. He was only able to do this because he was running E85 AND a large amount of meth.
 
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