Spyder Introduction and precurser to Spyder 4g64 DOHC swap and turbo build. With questions.

[darknezz7]

Hello all, first of hopefully many posts here. My friend has a 1997 Eclipse Spyder automatic with the 4g64 2.4l. Recently the car has been giving him some troubles with idle and a missfire, got most of that sorted though, now his trans is giving up. With 220k miles on it when bought I warned him not to expect much life left out of it.

So a build is in order, I convinced him to learn how to drive a manual and he is set on wanting more power, nothing crazy but something fun. I told him it would be best to just find a whole car to take everything off of. Well we found a 1995 gst manual 139k miles for 1000 bucks that "bent a valve" it also has nice leather seats that my friend has wanted in his Spyder.

I want to make a fully documented build thread out of this because there is sooo much scattered and broken info on this swap. I know some of you will say "search" "been covered over and over" "4g64.150m.com" but you know what, most of the links DO NOT WORK ANYMORE, the info if vague and leaves out details, tons of threads where people have started with no finish posted.

Here is what I have gathered from tons of different places, cross confirming with others places to see if its actually right. Please correct if anything is wrong.


The head will bolt right up, use all parts from the 4g63, ecu, fuel pump, ect.


I know about the oil passages that need plugged up.


Transmission will bolt right up.


I can use the 4g63 timing belt if I use 2 tensioner pulleys
"Best way is to use two tensioner pulleys. Replace the idler pulley with a tensioner pulley. Line the cams gear up to tdc like a 2l setup. Lock timing the belt to the cams gears using zip ties. Put the crank to tdc for number one cylinder. Tension the belt on the old idler pulley side first. Then do the tension on the hydraulic tension side. You can use a standard 2.0 timing belt this way. Plus the car will idle perfect this way. You can degree your cams from this point if you like but you might better off leaving it alone. "

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I will need adjustable cam gears.


I will do balance shaft delete.


ARP Head studs and MLS head gasket will be used.



Q 1. His car has that fuel pump module thing, that needs bypassed yes? Have found mention of this but nothing on how to do it.


Q 2. I have read I need the head gasket from a 1994 DOHC galant, why will the 4g63 gasket not work? Where can I find a MLS gasket for the galant? Previous posts with links to companies that sell it are all dead.



Q 3. Might have to do something with the CAS or is that only on 1g?


Would love to do JE pistons with Eagle rods and BC valve springs titanium retainers for another $1100 then future cams, but I don't think it will happen and probably not necessary for what he wants.


FINALLY MY BIG QUESTION
About pistons, I know I cannot use the stock 4g64 pistons because CR will be too high for boost, 11:1 I've read. The 4g63 pistons will not work? I know manley, wiseco and je all make custom pistons for custom CR specifically for this application, starting at $500...

I have read about using 2.4l PT cruiser turbo pistons? Now I have seen on several places people confirming all these things.

"The PTt pistons are for the 420a engines"
"The PTt pistons will work great and give around 9:1 CR"
""The PTt pistons will work if some is machined off the top"

So what is right? Cause those pistons are under $200.


Thanks for any insight

 

[CrackedDSM]

I have no insight, but I'm doing the same exact thing you are right now(except it's not going into a spyder, it's going into an Auto AWD 2G) so I'll be following this thread exactly. If I recall correctly though, a 4G63 headgasket will work, you just need to make sure it's 86.5mm. The stock MLS gasket has 87mm opening as does the composite gasket so either one will work for your application and in the future if you decide on going .020" over like I am. I've looked extensively into the HG application as well because mine is going forged internals and built for 800hp(not going to be that much power it's just what the motor can handle).


I had no idea you could use the 4G63 timing belt..nifty bit of information.

 

[darknezz7]

I had no idea you could use the 4G63 timing belt..nifty bit of information.

See, even after all the research it sounds you have done. That is why I would like to make a build thread with ALL the compiled info, updated parts and suppliers. Not just some vague pages from 2004.


So a 4g63 like a 95 gst head gasket WILL work with what I am trying to do then? Good.

 

[new2awd]

looks like a fun build. cant wait to see how in depth you get. good luck!

 

[darknezz7]

Thanks. It should be fun compared to what I am used to, that being a mechanic and doing mostly stock rebuild stuff. I also specialize in BMW's doing stuff like time serting aluminum blocks and dealing with dual vanos timing.

ONE THING FORGOT, knock sensor wiring.



Here is some of my current cars and family projects.

'94 530i - 6 speed swapped, DUDMD chip.
'89 Just Empty Every Pocket Cherokee 4x4 - 4.5" Lift, 31" M/T's, lots replaced. 4.6 Stroker build coming soon!
'94 325i - e36 bleh. Full HG Job, Suspension, More...
'79 Camaro - Basic 350 with Edelbrock, intake, headers, ect, restoring.

I also just picked up a 1985 bmw e30 2.7l straight 6 swapped that will be my auto cross car, it is getting a m30 3.5l six from a 535i that I already have, just need manual trans.

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Oh and I have owned an eclipse too! It had the 420a though and was complete crap everything kept breaking and it got me pulled over 5 times, a few for it smoking...

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more pics


Oh and I have a website for my business, ezdoesit.co
I have A LOT that needs updated...

 

[CrackedDSM]

Updates, I demand updates.

 

[Cdc1221]

You can look into sleeving the block. It might be reasonable *if* you have a friend capable of it. Then you can use factory turbo rods and pistons, like mine is. This will help strengthen the block as well. As for the PTT pistons, I would shy away from that. The info on it is sketchy at best, and you will really have no idea of actual cr. Also, while it will run on a factory ecu, some tuning will be needed, TRUST me. Mine knocks at low rpm, high load, with roughly 9:1 cr

 

[darknezz7]

I think he is just going to save up a bit more and get the correct forged pistons and rods for the application.

$855 for this JE and Eagle set.

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Other option I've presented to him is just rebuild the head and put it back on the 2.0 block and put the whole thing in his car, making it just a regular spyder turbo. Then build his 2.4 block up and do the swap later.

Still non of my questions have really been gone over, other than cracked, are you sure I can use the 4g63 head gasket on the 2.4 block?

Really it would knock with 9:1 and pretty much stock just from using the 2.4 block? We were not going to do any more power mods until getting ecmlink.

Heres progress, took around 8 hours to get the motor out while removing a bunch of stuff too.
Sorry for crappy pics too, when the real build starts I'll use a better camera.

Rather than buying all the turbo and manual swap parts separately we got a whole car, it also came with nice grey leather seats, rear disk brakes with upgraded calipers all around and everything else. I think this is large after market exhaust too, oh also a greddy RS BOV.

Here is the donor car. Bought it for $1000, the owner said it jumped time and no compression in cyl 2.

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I see absolutely no sign of valves hitting the pistons, what I see is a totally blown head gasket.

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[darknezz7]

So he is going to get the after market pistons and rods.

I'll be swapping over the whole 1995 gst harness, so should be no wiring or sensor problems.

I'll be using the gst fuel pump, still have these questions.

Q 1. His car has that fuel pump module thing, that needs bypassed yes? Have found mention of this but nothing on how to do it.


Q 2. I have read I need the head gasket from a 1994 DOHC galant, why will the 4g63 gasket not work? Where can I find a MLS gasket for the galant? Previous posts with links to companies that sell it are all dead.
STILL WOULD LIKE ANOTHER CONFIRM ON THIS!

 

[CrackedDSM]

In order to DOHC swap a 4G64 you need to block off the oiling drain holes that the 4G63 DOHC head does not share. These holes are going to be blocked anyway, making it identical to a 4G63 block pattern. At this point it is essentially just a 0.060 over 4G63. All MLS and OEM 4G63 Composite headgaskets that are 87mm bore sized(which they are) will work.

 

[GST Charade]

I recently finished my 4G64/4G63 build. i took 3 days. 97 GST with a 97 Galant block. it was pretty easy. I did not buy adjustable cam gears. I used stock 4g63 cam gears with the 4g63 timing belt and swapped the Idler pulley with another tensioner pulley. I also block off some oil drain holes. Im using stock pistons for the meantime but i dont plan on boosting over 9lbs on my big 16g turbo.

 

[darknezz7]

Yea, as I said in first post I know about the oil ports, though do need to lookup again exactly which ones and was gonna have machinist bore out some so the freeze plugs would be under surface, what I have read I need to do anyway.

Also posted about using the second tensioner pulley to use the 4g63 timing belt, yeah it can be done by making new timing marks, he just wants blue adj gears though.

Thanks though! My build thread will compile all this info. Damn, 30 post AND 30 days registered? I thought it was one or the other . crap.

So head gasket confirmed I guess if your sure, have read that before too. I'm going to order a hg kit for a 4g63.

Here is the car all this work is going into. After the engine work he is getting a new body kit and its getting painted. We out a complete new front end control arm and bushing kit in already.

We already swapped the leather seats from the red car and put in the keyless entry that came with it too. Most of the interior from the red car is in better shape and going in, the carpet will get replaced and the whole thing dynomated. Also the earlier style power mirrors. Lots of goodies!

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Then he ordered this 3g spyder rear leather seat

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And these are the $ numbers we are looking at

DOHC swap and engine prep for big power:

Machine shop clean and inspect, hone, surface block - $275
Machine shop balance rotating assembly and assemble short block - $340
Machine shop clean and inspect head, valve grind, surface -$380
Brian crower Titanium upgraded valve springs, seats, retainers - $225
Eagle forged rods, JE pistons, arp hardware - $855
ARP head studs - $120
MLS Head gasket kit reinz HS54044B - $85
Oil Pump - $80
ACL Main and rod bearings - $130
Misc gaskets and parts - $100
Oil changes and fluids - $100
2 rebuilt axles - $130

=$2820

Adj cam gears, ebay cheap $80, skunk2 $180

 

[darknezz7]

md309947 and no EPROM

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Also the stack of longer chips to the middle right the last 2 look swollen and burned
Also the stand off white board is brown on the top corner, so this thing has got hot.

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Also 2 of the fly wheel bolts are stripped and the other I am having a hell of a time getting out, pb blaster, torch and air impact.... WTF am I going to do about the stripped bolts?

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I really need to stop using my old phone for a camera...

 

[darknezz7]

Has it been a month yet so I can post in the build section. no.

In the next week we are going to order up the head gasket set, valve spring stuff and then have the head sent in for a valve job and surfaced.

He is still saving up some, has 2700, need a good 3 grand, a few 100 extra would be good too for any stuff that comes up.

oh yeah, I got some sockets that were supposed to "dig in" to stripped bolts to try the flywheel and all it did was round them off completely.

Drilling is taking FOREVER, I talked to a guy at local fastener store and he said I needed this $50 carbide drill bit.

any ideas?

 

[hotrodssnova]

Those swollen chips are the injector drivers I believe. You can replace them.

 

[darknezz7]

hmm, more info/part #'s?

So here is current list, stuff with *** is ordered

1997 Eclipse Spyder 2.4 4g64


DOHC swap and engine prep for big power:

Machine shop clean and inspect head, valve grind, surface -$380
Machine shop clean and inspect, hone, surface block - $275
Machine shop balance rotating assembly and assemble short block - $340

Wiseco Pistons - $510
ACL Main and rod bearings - $130

**Camshaft sensor -$35
**Second timing belt adjusting pulley -$12
**Clutch excedy and 11lb flywheel -$265
**Freeze plugs -$10

2 rebuilt axles - $130
Misc gaskets and parts - $100
Oil changes and fluids - $100

**BSE KIT -$15
**Eagle forged rods, ARP hardware - $280
**ARP head studs - $120
**ARP flywheel bolts -$50
**Oil Pump - $80
**Brian crower Titanium upgraded valve springs, seats, retainers - $225
**Lifters -$80
**MLS Head gasket kit - $85


=$3200

Adj cam gears, ebay cheap $80, skunk2 $230

Rebuilt 500 hp turbo 20g td06 $450
EPROM ECU and ECM Link chip tuning and logging $700
Fuel injectors and fuel pump $250
Wide band, afr and other gauges sensors $250

Eclipse spyder purchase $1000
Eclipse gst parts car purchase $1000



NEED TO KNOW SPECIFICS ON WHAT TO TELL MACHINIST TO DO TO BLOCK OIL PASSAGES FOR THE DOHC SWAP. ANY INFO PLEASE?

 

[darknezz7]

So heres the holes

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Can use threaded steel plugs and tap holes or insert freeze plugs. What sealant to use? (I know not rtv)


1x1/2nch freeze plug
2x5/8s freeze plugs
2x11/16's freeze plugs


Finally found a pretty good page on the subject.
http://www.thegalantcenter.org/showthread.php?40987-7-bolt-4G64-w-2g-DSM-head-turbo-build-q-s

and another on the build, guy starts out saying how every other build is not very detailed and hazy then posts hardly any pics or documentation before he says cars running.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cylinder-head-short-block/364266-7-bolt-2-4-hybrid-build.html

 

[darknezz7]

Head has been at machine shop for weeks while I have been trying to find valves, decided engnbldr but he no longers makes them.

Also had shop do oil port mod

Went with running strong LLC

whole thread on it here
http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/he...n-oem-running-strong-llc-brian-crower.478653/

Here is the response from running strong llc when I asked about the construction and quality of their valves, they replied within hours too.

"they are 214N material ,1 piece construction and swirl polished with chrome stems"

Price:
$139.00
SKU:
HIGH PERFORMANCE OVERSIZE MITSUBISHI ECLIPSE 2.0 4G63 4G61 4G64 INTAKE EXHAUST VALVES

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[darknezz7]

This will be the last update to this thread, well one more I guess posting the build journal link when I start it. So follow it there.

For now here is $745 of custom shiny cylinder head porn for you all

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Brian Crower BC0100 titanium retainer valve spring kit - $225
Running Strong LLC performance valves - $140
Machine shop clean, surface, seat cut, install valves and pressure test - $380
Revving over 9k SAFELY - Priceless

Also have new 3g lifters to go in, no cams right now the motor will be broken in with stock cams and he needs another $500...

Oh here's another shiny lump of aluminum we cleaned up yesterday, will be getting painted VHT enamel black.

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Stay tuned for build journal, car should be coming in late next week to start getting stripped down.
Hope to be running by 4th of July, drop the drop turn up the bass and watch some colors!

I recently finished my 4G64/4G63 build. i took 3 days. 97 GST with a 97 Galant block. it was pretty easy. I did not buy adjustable cam gears. I used stock 4g63 cam gears with the 4g63 timing belt and swapped the Idler pulley with another tensioner pulley. I also block off some oil drain holes. Im using stock pistons for the meantime but i dont plan on boosting over 9lbs on my big 16g turbo.

I'd really like to know how the stock 4g64 pistons are handling that boost and overall how your cars doing?

 

[darknezz7]

Build journal live click here

 

[darknezz7]

A lot has happened check out the build thread

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[darknezz7]

I said I wasnt going to update this but wth, some more people will see it.

Well its been slow (by some standards) progress but getting closer..
Doesnt help that I keep moving around, having to box up and move all this crap along with still make my own money and projects.

Check the build thread discussion for latest updates.

Here is where I am at tho.

Engine bay all shaved clean painted and ready

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where it sits today, all thats left is bolt on the intake and transmission then drop this beast in.

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[darknezz7]

Did the 20 mile break yesterday in at 12 psi, motoman method

It did absolutely great, better than I expected. No leaks, running smooth, at half throttle its already one of the fastest cars I have driven. I cannot wait for more boost!

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a nearly 6 month project is finally coming to a close, for the time being, it will always need something.

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Thank you everyone that has helped me though this, I would like to remind everyone that this is my first time working on a DSM, my first real experience with turbo and first time attempting to build a car this custom. Sure I've done plenty of timing belts, head gaskets and stock rebuilds, but having nothing but a pile of parts and trying to put it back together and look like this is quite a different situation.

Point is anyone can do it!

 

[speedpro22]

so u are also runnig a 2.4 stroker motor my phone number is 585-813-9154 please text me got a few questions look at my 0build to see what ive done to mine thanks

 

[arrowhead]

so u are also runnig a 2.4 stroker motor my phone number is 585-813-9154 please text me got a few questions look at my 0build to see what ive done to mine thanks

No he is running a 2.4, 4g64 engine with a 4g63 head.