interesting overheating problem

[walledeclipse]

so when i'm driving at hgihway speeds, especially up hills my temp gauge will read maybe 3 needles above the halfway mark, not really sure if thats within the normal range but it drives me insane...I currently have a band new radiator, brand new water pump, brand new thermostat(believe its a 195degree) so i'm lost as to why it still creeps up that high and would really like to figure out why, I was contemplating getting a lower temp thermostat or that it could be the temperature sending unit. thanks for any help/advice!

 

[Alan11]

temperature moving p and down is usually that you are low in coolant..if you recently replaced all those parts you might have what is called air pockets in your system....

Also i had a similar problem with my old GS when i got a new thermostat. Some thermostat come defective..with mine temp would rise while driving and go back to normal in idle..!!!..I went through three new thermostats..!!
Check your coolant, check for leaks..

 

[walledeclipse]

temperature moving p and down is usually that you are low in coolant..if you recently replaced all those parts you might have what is called air pockets in your system....

Also i had a similar problem with my old GS when i got a new thermostat. Some thermostat come defective..with mine temp would rise while driving and go back to normal in idle..!!!..I went through three new thermostats..!!
Check your coolant, check for leaks..

yea that could very well be the case, how do you bleed the air pockets out? and actually your old gs sounds exactly how my rs does now, I can let it sit in the driveway for 4 hrs and the temp won't move, but take it down the road doing 60 and hit a hill and bam! goes up

 

[Alan11]

There are two ways i know of..i used this method...burping hoses, remove you radiator cap fill it all the way to the top and start burping(pressing,squishing) the hose that goes from the radiator to the thermostat housing...all of this while the car is cold..

The second method is a little more dangerous..but please be very careful
Remove the cap (when the engine is cold) from the hosing, fill it all the way. Now, turn on the car, add coolant/water as needed until gauge reads normal. Replace cap, turn off car, add coolant/ water in reservoir to max line. Take a spin around the block, it should suck up whatever else it needs to fill up. Turn off car, refill reservoir (DO NOT take the cap off of the thermostat housing!!!)...
This is very dangerous..please make sure other stuff are god before doing this..
like a good thermostat..you can check if the thermostat is good by putting it in boiling water..it should open all the way...!!

 

[walledeclipse]

There are two ways i know of..i used this method...burping hoses, remove you radiator cap fill it all the way to the top and start burping(pressing,squishing) the hose that goes from the radiator to the thermostat housing...all of this while the car is cold..

The second method is a little more dangerous..but please be very careful
Remove the cap (when the engine is cold) from the hosing, fill it all the way. Now, turn on the car, add coolant/water as needed until gauge reads normal. Replace cap, turn off car, add coolant/ water in reservoir to max line. Take a spin around the block, it should suck up whatever else it needs to fill up. Turn off car, refill reservoir (DO NOT take the cap off of the thermostat housing!!!)...
This is very dangerous..please make sure other stuff are god before doing this..
like a good thermostat..you can check if the thermostat is good by putting it in boiling water..it should open all the way...!!

ok thanks will do! and yea I might try running it without my thermostat(just back and forth to work...its like 10 minute drive) just to see if that could be it since I know that puts it in open loop mode.

 

[walledeclipse]

while looking at this again today I noticed there is what appears to be an oil cooler, well some type of cooler, in front of my radiator, but I thought 420a's did not have an oil cooler in stock form? because it appers to be an original part judging by how old it looks, could that be causing it to not get proper airflow?

 

[Th3DooM]

Damn, i have exactly the same problem! I thought I'm the only with this. I bought a new radiator (after my old one leaked) and changed the thermostat. Nothing helped.

A guy told me to change the radiator cap since a broken one can cause these problems. I didn't try it (yeah, I'm a lazzy ass) but maybe it'll help.

while looking at this again today I noticed there is what appears to be an oil cooler, well some type of cooler, in front of my radiator, but I thought 420a's did not have an oil cooler in stock form? because it appers to be an original part judging by how old it looks, could that be causing it to not get proper airflow?

Either it's the power steering "cooling line" or the A/C condenser. Somtimes that thing collects a lot of dirt from the road. cleaning it from the outside isn't a bad idea.

 

[Alan11]

while looking at this again today I noticed there is what appears to be an oil cooler, well some type of cooler, in front of my radiator, but I thought 420a's did not have an oil cooler in stock form? because it appers to be an original part judging by how old it looks, could that be causing it to not get proper airflow?

post a pic..of the "oil cooler" ..

And no while running you car gets enough air that your fans don't even need to turn on..Unless the "Oil cooler" thing you mention is blocking a large amount of airflow, but i doubt it.

So is not an air flowing problem..

 

[Shake_Zulla]

while looking at this again today I noticed there is what appears to be an oil cooler, well some type of cooler, in front of my radiator, but I thought 420a's did not have an oil cooler in stock form? because it appers to be an original part judging by how old it looks, could that be causing it to not get proper airflow?

Ever notice why your fan kicks on when you turn your ac on? Condenser lines.

On to your problem... you might not have a problem at all. Higher rpms means that you have more detonation in a min and more friction. Plus to maintain speed up hill you will be at a higher rpm so a little more heat is to be expected. However, if you feel like it is getting too hot then there is a few things you can check. First of all make sure you have at least a 50/50 mix of antifreeze and water. Some people by mistake by the premixed stuff (cause its cheaper) and mix it with 1:1 water. That makes your mixture a 25 part antifreeze and 75 part water. Second check the pressure in your system AND YOUR CAP. A 50/50 mix has a boiling point of 225 degrees while the same mix under 15psi has a boiling point of 265 degrees. Now your car isn't boiling over so thats probably not the problem. Here are some other possible problems.

-low coolant level. (on a cold engine you should be able to take the radiator cap off and see coolant in the system.)
-Accumulated deposits in the radiator (both inside and out these deposits will cause poor heat conductivity.)
-Thermostat (sticks closed or partially closed)
-slipping fan clutch or broken fan (make sure both fans are moving when your car is hot, loss of one fan means 50% less cooling at idle.)
-collapsed lower radiator hose (restricts flow.)
-retarded or advanced timing
-Excessive exhaust backpressure (possibly a blocked Cat)
-Dirty or excessively old oil

Even though some of these probably don't apply to you I put them in to help possible other people with this problem. Good luck

 

[walledeclipse]

thanks for all the help guys! i'm going to try an oil change and driving a little ways without the thermostat in tomorrow, and probably clean off that ac condenser, also on that same thought is it possible that since thats in front of my radiator that if it had alot of bent fins on it that it could restrict airflow enough to make it overheat slightly? and also the reason I am so obsessed with having this cooling issue straightened out is i'm goin g to compete in car audio with my car this year and will be adding quite a bit of weight but don't want to do so if my car is already getting a little too hot with it stripped down

 

[Alan11]

Ever notice why your fans kick on when you turn your ac on? Condenser lines.

On to your problem... you might not have a problem at all. Higher rpms means that you have more detonation in a min and more friction. Plus to maintain speed up hill you will be at a higher rpm so a little more heat is to be expected. However, if you feel like it is getting too hot then there is a few things you can check. First of all make sure you have at least a 50/50 mix of antifreeze and water. Some people by mistake by the premixed stuff (cause its cheaper) and mix it with 1:1 water. That makes your mixture a 25 part antifreeze and 75 part water. Second check the pressure in your system AND YOUR CAP. A 50/50 mix has a boiling point of 225 degrees while the same mix under 15psi has a boiling point of 265 degrees. Now your car isn't boiling over so thats probably not the problem. Here are some other possible problems.

-low coolant level. (on a cold engine you should be able to take the radiator cap off and see coolant in the system.)
-Accumulated deposits in the radiator (both inside and out these deposits will cause poor heat conductivity.)
-Thermostat (sticks closed or partially closed)
-slipping fan clutch or broken fan (make sure both fans are moving when your car is hot, loss of one fan means 50% less cooling at idle.)
-collapsed lower radiator hose (restricts flow.)
-retarded or advanced timing
-Excessive exhaust backpressure (possibly a blocked Cat)
-Dirty or excessively old oil

Even though some of these probably don't apply to you I put them in to help possible other people with this problem. Good luck

Temperature should not move above half ways..!
Also only one fan should turn on and of not both..!!

 

[Shake_Zulla]

Temperature should not move above half ways..!
Also only one fan should turn on and of not both..!!

Seriously? Are you really going to flame me for my attempt to help? First of all I never said anything about which fan turns off and on i said...

-slipping fan clutch or broken fan (make sure both fans are moving when your car is hot, loss of one fan means 50% less cooling at idle.)

What I was trying to say was to make sure one of your fans isn't broken. Or you could be talking about this...

Ever notice why your fans kick on when you turn your ac on?

if thats the case I'll fix it for future generations...

Ever notice why your fan kicks on when you turn your ac on?

Acceptable?

Also since your the obvious expert on what the running temp of a Chrysler 420A maybe you can help us out by telling us what the exact temp is when the needle is at the half way mark and how much the temp is when it moves 3 needle widths hotter and tell us if thats acceptable. Don't forget to calculate ambient temperature, humidity and altitude in your equation Bill Nye.

-or-

You could just play nice with the other kids and not try to correct statements that probably don't "need" to be corrected. Have a good day.

 

[Alan11]

relax..I wasn't trying to flame anyone..!!
You know only one fan should turn on and of normally...the other is for the ac...Correct??
if they Both turn on at the same Time something is wrong..!!

If you want to know about the temperature it should never pass above 212° F...!!..anything above that is overheating...I will never let my car needle pass the half way mark...EVER..
the ambient temperature, humidity and altitude should not matter..if your car is working properly no matter how hot is outside the fans should kick in to cool the engine..!!..
when the car is running fans don't need to turn on so the fans in this case are not the problem of the OP..!!

If you want to provide all of that much info to help anyone with overheating problems create a tech article or a blog and make sure your info is correct before posting..!!

 

[walledeclipse]

could the ect sensor going out have anything to do with this?

 

[VelocitàPaola]

if they Both turn on at the same Time something is wrong..!!

Not at all... the engine could be hot and the A/C could be on.

If you want to provide all of that much info to help anyone with overheating problems create a tech article or a blog and make sure your info is correct before posting..!!

His information was correct and he's more than welcome to post it how he pleases.


I think the misunderstanding above happened due to your egregious use of exclamation marks. It makes it look like you're yelling!!

 

[VelocitàPaola]

could the ect sensor going out have anything to do with this?

It's possible, but there would probably be other symptoms as well. Have you checked your fans?

 

[walledeclipse]

It's possible, but there would probably be other symptoms as well. Have you checked your fans?

well see thats what got me thinking today...a month or so ago I went to start my car and I was in the house and could hear it sputter and have a fluctuating idle until it warmed up then it was fine, so I just left it alone, then I also noticed i could smell alot of gas coming from my exhaust and my fuel economy has went down quite a bit...but I never notced the drop in my fuel economy as most of the time besides when i'm rebuilding the audio system my car has alot of extra weight(800lb area) so it usually sucks anyways but since that all started happening I haven't had it all out but now I do and my gas mileage still sucks....just kinda hit me all at once.

edit: yes I actually have my radiator fan wired to a switch for the time being and it seems to help slightly sometimes but other times not at all, i usually just flip it on when i start it and leave it on.

 

[Alan11]

Not at all... the engine could be hot and the A/C could be on.


His information was correct and he's more than welcome to post it how he pleases.


I think the misunderstanding above happened due to your egregious use of exclamation marks. It makes it look like you're yelling!!

you know what i always do that..i put a lot of exclamation marks.
Need to stop it.


Of course they can both be on at the same time if the engine is hot plus the a/c on...
i meant both on with only the engine hot and the a/c not off.


And on my old Gs and on my current Gsx only one fan turns on. I live in the desert and after driving it for a while and stop to let the car cool down only one fan turns on and of and i let the fan do that a couple of times. The other fan only turns on with the a/c on.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

well see thats what got me thinking today...a month or so ago I went to start my car and I was in the house and could hear it sputter and have a fluctuating idle until it warmed up then it was fine, so I just left it alone, then I also noticed i could smell alot of gas coming from my exhaust and my fuel economy has went down quite a bit...but I never notced the drop in my fuel economy as most of the time besides when i'm rebuilding the audio system my car has alot of extra weight(800lb area) so it usually sucks anyways but since that all started happening I haven't had it all out but now I do and my gas mileage still sucks....just kinda hit me all at once.

edit: yes I actually have my radiator fan wired to a switch for the time being and it seems to help slightly sometimes but other times not at all, i usually just flip it on when i start it and leave it on.

It's pretty easy to check the sensor with a digital multimeter. Remove the sensor and check the resistance across the two pins. Heat the sensor with boiling water and measure the resistance again. You should see a large difference in the measured value; the FSM has acceptable values for a given temperature.

The car shouldn't be overheating if the fans are on all the time though... Have you replaced or inspected the radiator cap?

 

[walledeclipse]

yea so far i've installed a new 1.1 bar radiator cap,new thermostat probably 4 times in the last month(just to see if that was it), new water pump and a new radiator, guess I could always try a 180degree thermostat....

 

[Alan11]

i am starting to think you have a blown head gasket...(its is just a though)
if you say you replace all that an its still the same..
unless you still have air in you system..make sure you are not low in coolant.
Even a little low on coolant can make the needle move up and down. It happened to me before.

 

[walledeclipse]

cylinder head is brand new with a new mls gasket, not a leak on it......I still might try replacing the ect sensor since it is running somewhat rich and trying to die when its a cold start as well.

edit:compression is fine on all 4 cylinders as well

 

[Alan11]

ok..the HG eliminated..!!
what about a leak have you checked you heater core hoses..?
Can you smell any coolant.?
Also replacing to or testing the Ect sensor would be a good idea.

 

[walledeclipse]

ok..the HG eliminated..!!
what about a leak have you checked you heater core hoses..?
Can you smell any coolant.?
Also replacing to or testing the Ect sensor would be a good idea.

yes I have they were one of the first things I checked because I have heard they rupture quite often on the 420a eclipses, and no I can't smell any coolant, but there is definately way too much gas being burnt through the exhaust that I can smell....i'm so confused right now

ok so I just tested out my sending unit and saw something quite disturbing, even though it may be normal I need some confirmation....my dmm started reading at about .735 when set to ohms and I noticed it changed to a K at the top so i'm guessing that means x1000? not really sure but either way from a cold start it went steadily down to about .125 then jumped back up to the .700+ range, could this mean the sending unit is gone? the only time i've seen an ohm reading spike that quickly and that much was when testing a subwoofer when the coil was leaving the gap...so i'm sligthly confused on this one

just changed my oil, didn't help any

welp finally got around to checking some more stuff today and the thermostat was the issue it would stick partially closed, ordering a 180 today, thanks for all the help and insight guys!