installed HIGH compression pistons OMG

[NinjaTech]

these are not forged pistons

Thruout this entire thread there is a quote that that a friend of mine from an LT1 board like to use to describe to people what will happen if they run more than 8PSI on a stock 10.5:1CR LT1.

"A new motor is only a few knocks away"

If I where a MOD this thread when have been closed a while ago..

 

[UPGRADED2G]

Why does everyone keep repeating the obvious, as if the threadstarter doesn't already know the effects of too much boost on a high compression engine. It seems as if he has some background and realizes that high compression pistons aren't the way to go, but wants to prove it to himslef. He is on a mission, let him be. Please do post a video when you get a chance. I think this is something everyone would like to see. I'll refrain from the negatives since they have already been mentioned. I would wish you good luck, but that's for those of us who don't have money to throw around on rebuilding our engines after putting in high compression pistons. So all the best to you.

 

[armandovivoni]

I think that can depend on fuel system and tuning of the lt1.

I already am at 10psi. everything working fine.


upgraded2g. at last somebody understands what im trying to do!

 

[DarkLaser]

You guys need to let him be. If we didn't have people doing dumb stuff and blowin s#!* up then we would all have stock everything to keep from blowing stuff up. What do you think people did to the first person to put a 50trim on a 4cyl.? HAHAHA.......DAMN did that thing just woop my vett???? Or how a bout the first person to slap a 4g64(4gcs i'm not stupid) crank into the bottom end of our motors all of you said oh wahh the rod ratio is bad and it wont work right, AND HE SAID......next time we race my stroker against your stock 2.0 I will give you a head start and unplug a wire so you can have a fighting chance. I think a Mod does need to come in here and make people reread the bright red paragraph above the reply form..oh wait here it is.

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[DSMJim]

nothing wrong with all motor honda setups. but i myself like a bigger car with more than a egg crate to sit on and more than a speedo and tach zip tied to what used to be a dash when i go to the track. everyone knows a 12 second all motor honda, but they dont mention is its all motor and no car. ooh b18c5, 10psi stock motor, whoopteefrickindoo. if i wanted to spend close to 8-10grand for a 11 second setup, it wouldnt be in a tin canned 4banger.

Where are you getting 8-10 grand from dude? Do you make 319whp? And what does the amount of boost have anything to do with it, so what if its 10psi. It's 10:1 compression and made 319whp with a bolt on turbo kit. This is what we are talking about is big power from high compression pistons, or did you miss the topic and original posters comments? Your not even close to making that power yourself in a car that weights 500lbs extra. This particular car was an Integra running 12.5 @ 114MPH with interior.

Drag Turbo Kit, $2600 complete with everything
AFC $300
310cc Injectors $200
Manual Boost controller $50

Thats $3150 to make that type of power super reliable.

those guys are running forged setups and more than likely insanely strong blocks. and someone already calculated his compression(armando's) is gonna be around 14:1 if their math is right. and also unlimited pocketbooks, if a engine blows up, theres prolly a backup and a backup of a backup in the trailer, "pah, get out dah hamma, i blew me a enjuhn".

Don't spend much time at the race track huh?

thats cause they have no torque. no power till 4-5k. and wow a b18c on 10psi, i bet that cost a good 6grand for the engine/turbo setup alone. 6 grand, i couldve bought my 16g setup and still had 4000 left and made the same power. i guess if you have mommy and daddy buy your honduh then everything else is no big deal.

319whp and 251ft/lbs. Don't go on with the HP vs. Torque thing cause we all know absolute HP is a faster car, now you sounds like an internet loser who reads a lot but doesn't spend anytime at the track.

Your car with a 16G only would not beat an integra with a drag turbo kit. Have you gone 12.5 @ 114mph or better in your car? Uhh no. You go 15.3 @91mph.

Honestly I went through some of your posts and it seems like you know what your talking about pretty well, so why your bashing Honda's so bad is beyond me. Look around you can make them fast for cheap and many guys do. In the end HP and ET's are HP and ET's regardless of how you get there. We just do it with Style vs. a Honda...

 

[spoolin27awd]

sounds like every one of you need to go back to school.......o well .....I guess thats why us auto tech make good money any more all i have to say is keep poping engines and i will keep fixing them ps:it is still a honda and honda lovers are ###!

 

[Turbo Talon DL]

Dude, don't post on things you know nothing about, cranking compression has too many variables to use it to judge the static CR. for example cam timing has a huge role in cranking compression, as well as VE, and other such things, but you already know this dont you?

I know I only mentioned egt, knock, and fuel/engine management, knowing that he does NOT have forged pistons. I know what static CR, cam timing, and VE and the roles they play, thank you I actually dont have anything against what he's doing. I've read about others on this forum doing the same thing, using 12* or so of timing, and making over 400hp. Like I said in a PREVIOUS post, he has fuel, timing, and proper engine management/monitoring tools, such as EGT, and what not. There is nothing negative in my statement like some others on here

 

[killab443]

Anyone ever hear of buuilders heattreating heads? I saw an mag a while back, that had an m3 build, they headtreated the head to make it be able to handle the heat. They had 10:1 pistons or 11:1 It was around there and they were running a turbo on it. The said the head woul need to handle a lot of heat so they preped it and built it.

 

[ACKERSON]

Has anybody in this thread ran a high compression turbo motor? Has anybody in this thread tuned a high compression turbo motor? If you havent then I really see no reason why you should be posting in here.

It seems like almost everybody in here is posting second hand information. If you don't have first hand experience with a high compression turbo motor then you have nothing useful to contribute

I HAVE built and tuned high compression turbo motors. What this guy is doing is not unheard of, and if it is done properly then he wont have any issues. There are members of this board running 10:1 motors on pump gas at 15 -20 psi. Assuming that the engine is built properly, then it all comes down to tuning.

And quit the honda bashing, that shit gets old. Most of you have no idea what a honda is capable of. Just imagine taking your gst with 325whp and dropping 700 lbs. Not to mention performance parts availabilty, tuning options galore, swapping options, parts interchange, infomation resources, etc.

So unless you have useful information (positive or negative) to contribute then stop wasting space.

 

[na_turbotalon]

Anyone ever hear of buuilders heattreating heads? I saw an mag a while back, that had an m3 build, they headtreated the head to make it be able to handle the heat. They had 10:1 pistons or 11:1 It was around there and they were running a turbo on it. The said the head woul need to handle a lot of heat so they preped it and built it.

I know you can heat treat steel because the crystal structure changes from BCC to FCC upon heating and under proper cooling conditions you can make it harder or softer. But aluminium doesn't change crystal structure the way steel does, the only way to make aluminium harder and stronger is by alloying it or cold working it. So I'm guessing this shop is full of shit, much the way most shops who claim to do cryo-treating are.

 

[armandovivoni]

ackerson, thanks for the support. i agree with what you are saying about first hand experience.

you said you have build and tuned high comp turbo. are you talking about 4g63??
what do you mean by done properly?

do you have any tips. something I should be aware of when tuning.

 

[armandovivoni]

I have some doubts like do the EGT safe temp. change? I used to run before up to 1,300 on the autometer pyrometer. can it still go 1,300 on the high comp. pistons?

I would like to have an idea of what HP numbers I should be expecting to see at 20psi. nothing precise. just an idea to know if im doing good or not.

 

[Thomas91169]

no jim im not bashing hondas at all. i knew a guy who had around 8,000 in his civic and couldnt get faster than a 12.3.

he had a (if i remember) b20 block with a gsr head, and running 8 psi on some sort of t3/t4(was a good 2 years ago), a LSD equipped tranny, fully gutted interior with cage. he bought all the stuff kinda new(engine, head, turbo kit, tranny) from a place that brings used honda parts here. he was using aem ems to tune, had some big name shop doing it. i took a ride in it and wasnt impressed, he asked if i could do better, i bring up dsmtuners and show him i couldve done that better with half the money invested, and still been more reliable than his high comp turboed motor just waiting to grenade itself.

he now drives a evo. i guess he got a awd launch from one of his buddies and had to get his own. cool though, havent really seen him since.



im not saying high compression with forced induction cant be done. it can, but theres a hefty price to pay when it does give up and decide to self destruct. if i wanted high compression and turbo, diesel is the way to go. that one guy and his 10 second turbodiesel, that shits badass.

and i used to go to the track almost every week, but now i work. only time i can get there is friday nights when all the ricers in sub 16 second passes are there, and im not gonna drive 2 hours, pay 15 bucks to run, listen to 100 vtecs, get maybe 2 runs in, realize how shitty fwd is for the track, then drive another 2 hours home.

 

[Thomas91169]

I have some doubts like do the EGT safe temp. change? I used to run before up to 1,300 on the autometer pyrometer. can it still go 1,300 on the high comp. pistons?

I would like to have an idea of what HP numbers I should be expecting to see at 20psi. nothing precise. just an idea to know if im doing good or not.

nobody knows cause nobody has done high comp on a 4g63.

and egt's, you should want to keep it under as much as you can in any case. high comp is gonna run hotter because now the air is getting compresses more than it used to. ever see turbos on the dyno that get to the point of molten metal?

 

[armandovivoni]

I agree with what you say about FWD DSM and 1/4 track. seems that the more power you have the slower you get on the 1/4 mile(on street tires). the only solution is to put on some slicks and hope not to break your glass tranny.

 

[ShapeGSX]

At least he doesn't have a 16g on a built / rebuilt motor like 50% of people on these boards do. That makes me sick everytime I read about someone just building an engine with all forged internals and cams and what not and then having a 16g.

And what exactly is wrong with having a 16G?

 

[95blackGsTurbo]

This thread is great. My boss is sitting here laughing his ass of at some of you people. Then again some of you like DSMJim and a few select others are actually making sense. For those of you that think you can't run high boost on high compression tell that to my boss and his 71 Chevelle Big Block with 13.7:1 compression and 13 psi on a 871-1 supercharged. (FYI Thats a top fuel supercharger). He owns his own motor building place. We custom grind cams and lightwieght cranks and whatnot here. Running that kinda compression and boost combo wouldn't be impossible but it depends no what kind of rods you have. I have a friend with a 800+ hp DSM running an RS65 turbo but his motor has forged crank, titanium rods and titanium valvetrain parts. It can be done but at a price to support what you are going to try and do. Some of you are so far out in left field it's not even funny. I personally think that if he keeps his knock down he should be alright. I don't think it will be a very reliable daily driver and you better find about the most expensive headgasket you can find and get ARP EVERYTHING. I personally think this thread should just be closed before some people out there that halfway know what they are talking about get confused and start infecting other people.

 

[boostedinaz]

This thread is great. My boss is sitting here laughing his ass of at some of you people. Then again some of you like DSMJim and a few select others are actually making sense. For those of you that think you can't run high boost on high compression tell that to my boss and his 71 Chevelle Big Block with 13.7:1 compression and 13 psi on a 871-1 supercharged. (FYI Thats a top fuel supercharger). He owns his own motor building place. We custom grind cams and lightwieght cranks and whatnot here. Running that kinda compression and boost combo wouldn't be impossible but it depends no what kind of rods you have. I have a friend with a 800+ hp DSM running an RS65 turbo but his motor has forged crank, titanium rods and titanium valvetrain parts. It can be done but at a price to support what you are going to try and do. Some of you are so far out in left field it's not even funny. I personally think that if he keeps his knock down he should be alright. I don't think it will be a very reliable daily driver and you better find about the most expensive headgasket you can find and get ARP EVERYTHING. I personally think this thread should just be closed before some people out there that halfway know what they are talking about get confused and start infecting other people.

You post also makes me laugh. An 8-71 is far from a 14-71 that used on Topfuel and Funny car and they are notorious for superheating air at higher boost levels, like the 40+ in a Topfuel car. So 13 PSI on a high compression bigblock is far from anything on a TF car. Also, care to let us know what kind of fuel he is using on this Chevelle I know its not pumpgas. The titanium head components have nothing to do with what kind of fuel and how prone it is to detonation. I just want to make sure I read you post right. So you can run what ever PSI you want with any compression as long as you have good rods? If this is true then explain what happens when you super mega unobtainium rods hold up, but you aluminum pistons melt from detonation. Again tunning is the key. If you run lower compression and more boost it will be easier to tune. No one, at least that knows about cars, says it it cant be done, but why take the chance and have such a small tunning window or have to run high octane fuel all the time.

For the rest anything can be tuned to run well. Just becasue he has higher compression and wants to run boost doesnt mean it cant or wont work. He will have to spend alot more time tunning his combo and it will be very sesitive to weather and alltitude changes, but it can and has been done. I dont see why in every post abot a street car someone also has to throw in there friends, brothers, uncles, race car that runs 22:1 with 40 lbs of boost. Then they forget to mention that he is running methonal, drives off a trailer to the staging lanes, and has a fully manual tranny. If it doesnt have to do with a street car and pump gas then what is the point of bringing it up. Yeah alot of race only cars can do all kinds of neat things, but it make no sense here.

 

[Anomoly#5]

I agree

 

[Maglin]

Wow so much Hating. I haven't seen a single one of you give a congratz on him taking a Turbo Mirage @15 psi while he is running just 5 psi.

I used to belong to most of this crowd here and totally hate high compression boosted apps. But with the proper attention to detail ie... Combustion camber reworking, and most important quench height, high compression boosted apps work. You won't see many people do it cause it costs a lot more in supporting mods and it is absolutely necessary to dyno tune and not just a street tune. And a stand alone is also necessary to control the fuel and timing more precisely.

I'm going to be running 9.2:1 static compression. (Static compression is at rest btw meaning more or less the motors compression N/A for simplicity) and as boost is increased the dynamic compression rises on a almost linier scale. Those numbers posted earlier are close to what you would be seeing in this situation.

Also with Alcohol injection to kept the air charge frigid I don't see any problem running 15 psi with a good tune. I'm glad to see a few more people try something different and looks like you even have the equipment to do it right.

 

[armandovivoni]

today Im getting weird problem.

when ON WOT car like at 6psi the car will shut down(loose all power like if spark was taken away) the come back on. it did it once. I stopped and cheked all connections. everything looked good. so I go, step on it again and BAM loose power again. its this brings back memories of when I first started moding my car and started getting FUEL CUT. I hate that fealing. getting pushed back to the seat and sudenly eating the stearing wheel.

 

[boostedinaz]

today Im getting weird problem.

when ON WOT car like at 6psi the car will shut down(loose all power like if spark was taken away) the come back on. it did it once. I stopped and cheked all connections. everything looked good. so I go, step on it again and BAM loose power again. its this brings back memories of when I first started moding my car and started getting FUEL CUT. I hate that fealing. getting pushed back to the seat and sudenly eating the stearing wheel.

Just a thought, but perhaps a logger will tell you what is going on.

 

[armandovivoni]

Im thinking it might be a bad connection some were between camtriger and coils, cause it only does it at WOT. also I have not bolted the coils up. I have them strapped on the intake manifold. do you think maybe the jumping and hitting of the coils to the manifold cause them to malfunction?

 

[JiveMasterT]

this is exactly why my ideal setup consists of evo 8 pistons (8:8:1) with 1g big rods, and a forged 4g64 crank...

that combined with a 50 trim would make for quite a formidable street beast and a pretty solid power curve... probably also get a thicker hg.

compression can be your friend to a point, but then it makes boosted applications more difficult.

 

[armandovivoni]

hmm I think I found the problem, I followed the wiring of the cam triger, undid the insulation and found 1 of the 4 wires was bearly hooked up to its other end. maybe vibration made it come apart.(thats why every hookup you make you should solder), then I decided to add a ground to the ignition, also now I have installed the coils on the fire wall(they are no longer jumping on top of the intake manifold). so I hope tomorrow when I go test, it will be working fine. If its all good. I just have to buy the exhaust manifold gaskets(I didn't replace them when I did the rebuild and they are leaking) and to the dyno. the 23th