Information Summation on shocks and coilover sleeves

[HotSauce GS N/T]

ok so after reading the suspension forum for 3 days this is what i got accomplished and was hoping i could get the o.k. from a few people before i spent $400

a) coilovers and stock shocks DO NOT WORK because the spring rate and the shock dampening? rate are not compatable.

b) coilovers on stock shocks will cause severe bouncyness and/or crappy ride over potholes and such, and will cause stock shocks to blow

c) there are 3 basic choices for adjustable shocks
tokico illuminas(around 400$), kyb agx(around 380), and koni yellow(around 550?)

d) kyb agx will not work well with lowering springs because are the same length as stock
illuminas are a lil more

e) tokico illuminas will work good with loweing springs and maybe coilover sleeves but have a tendency to blow easily

f) koni yellows are very expensice but are the shortest of the 3 and not gas but hydrolic so will do the same as tokico but last longer

with all this in mind, and having bought arospeed coilover sleeves i plan on buying illumias becuase i cant afford koni, just wondering if anyone had good experiences with illuminas and coilovers

i made this thread because i wanted to gather alot of basic suspension question into one because it shouldnt take 3 days to seach through all the threads with outdated and scattered info

keep in mind that i am not a suspension expert and by the way it sounds on the previous posts i went through alot of people have the same questions over and over again


thanks alot!

hot sauce

 

[jtmcinder]

One correction: all shocks are hydraulic in that all work by wedging oil through small holes or beneath thin metal shims. Maybe you were thinking of the difference between low- and high-pressure shocks when you mentioned gas.

Also: whether or not your springs sit on adjustable (coil-over) perches or on the perch that comes with the shock is not really important. The key is whether the shocks have damping rates that are appropriate for the springs. So, there is no problem using coil-overs with stock shocks ... as long as you run spring rates that are down around those that came stock. (But keep in mind that low spring rates mean you can't slam the car.)

Lastly: I think that the reason we get the same questions over and over is that people are still hoping for a suspension that rides like stock, handles well, is about 1" more lowered than a DSM ever should be, and still cost about $500. They dream up new combinations (or just grab crap off eBay) and then want us to tell them that it'll be fine.

Here's my summary (for 2Gs): if you won't spend the $1000+ it takes to do it right, then get the Illuminas and H&R OE Sports or ProKits. Half-assed coil-overs are never the right way to go.

- Jtoby

 

[HotSauce GS N/T]

thanks for the info man, the last few days you've been helping me alot. i think ill eventually ditch the coilovers for springs but im hoping i can run the illuminas with the coilovers for a lil while, at least untill i can pay them off and save for springs..

so illuminas it is!!

 

[3literpwr]

All three shocks listed are gas/oil emulsion shocks... Out of the 3 the AGX has the largest adjustment range, followed by the koni and then the tokico......

I would go with the AGX for range of adjustment but lowering may be a problem......

I think JTC digs the KONI's

I have not dynoed a Tokico myself so im sure its performance exactly.... I have been told of moderate adjustment ranges by others in the shock field.....

DONT cut your jounce bumpers!!

Larry
#622 scca club rally

 

[ACM]

Having used all 3 brands, Illuminas are only suitable for stock springs, the damping balance is wrong for stiffer springs; AGX on the surface seem ok, but they are harsh in real life and blow seals regularly; Konis have shorter bodies, thus better suited to lowering, they only stiffen rebound (in the lower adjustments), but they run out of rebound at about 300 lb/in rear and 500lb/in front spring rates, which limits the ride height you can run whilst still effectively damped. Of the 3 Konis are an order of magnitude better and seem to last several times longer than the other two.

Charles

 

[Ralli///Art GS]

heh, again with the jounce bumpers larry , I run H&R Sport Springs and they are fantastic. They barely lower the car so they can be used with most shocks. I have them with GR-2's until this weekend when i'll put the AGX in. I don't think coilovers are they way to go unless you're going to get an actual coilover unit, where the actual shock body is threaded and the dampening is correct for the spring rate. A set of H&R springs is 200 bucks from tire rack, so my recomendation would be to get rid of the aerospeed junk and get a set of AGX's with H&R springs. Just my 2 cents. Good luck.


Side Note: AGX have a lifetime warranty (as long as you don't lower the car more than 1.5")

 

[HotSauce GS N/T]

i dunno what to do anymore i was gonna get illuminas now after reading this i dont know,

what i do know is i want adjustable shocks and i want to lower my car 2" maybe a lil less

im undecided between the 2 but im leaning towards illuminas because of the agx's arent made for lowering more then 1.5

please help!!

ps. the shocks on my car are blown so the sooner i order the new ones the better

im hoping either tonight or tomorrow

 

[jtmcinder]

AGXs have too much compression damping for the amount of rebound. Illuminas and H&R springs.

- Jtoby

 

[3literpwr]

The AGX does seem to have alot of low speed compression and in fact lots of compression all over the curve....... Here is a dyno curve of a rallie art EVO 4 strut from KYB...These where the stock shocks that came with my buddy evo 4 that he imported to build into a rally car......

Also they forces are overlayed on a GAB rally shock from the 90's not that the "STOCK" UNIT has more compression ann nearly the same rebound......

GAB rallys where non adjustable... and this was the evos set to what ever? as the knobs did little in the one front I tested.....

Larry
#622 scca rally

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['96_Talon_TSi]

not to hijack... how the heck do you read those shock dyno charts?

 

[3literpwr]

The bottom is rebound and the top is compression.... 0-45 (left to right) represent shock speeds while the other number are the forces in pounds...... There are other forms of dyno curves too that tell different things about how the shock acts.....

different curves and forces result in different feels...... Drag shocks, rally and road race will all look a little different in shape and force.....

Larry
#622 scca rally

 

[PaulPDX]

what i do know is i want adjustable shocks and i want to lower my car 2" maybe a lil less

im undecided between the 2 but im leaning towards illuminas because of the agx's arent made for lowering more then 1.5

You've already been told numerous times here and other threads that 2" is too much... yet you keep mentioning 2" drop like it's some sort of golden number.

Told you about the Konis over the other shocks in the other thread you started before this one... and you're still talking about the other ones. ACM told you about the Konis in this thread too.

Haven't you had enough of not listening to the advice you get? Start listening mang!

I think that the reason we get the same questions over and over is that people are still hoping for a suspension that rides like stock, handles well, is about 1" more lowered than a DSM ever should be, and still cost about $500. They dream up new combinations (or just grab crap off eBay) and then want us to tell them that it'll be fine.

You've hit the head of the nail again... The number of "buy first ask questions later" threads lately have been very puzzling.

 

[tunerkid]

persoally, unless you are looking for reallly good suspension, tokico ills. arent really worth the cash, tokico HPs are the same thing just arent adjustable. and they are a lot cheaper, i hear good and only good things about the HPs so my setup with be hps+eibach prokits shortly. i know a TON of people with ills. that never even adjusted the things, i know some that have yes, but unless you "NEED" "great" suspenion, you can still get an awesome setup with eibach or h&r's and like tokicos hp's for easily under 500.

anyone ever use the tokico combo package? they come with tokico springs? i thought about that too, only cost like 350-4. just a thought.

i do wish i had the money for coils, REAL coils, like tein or something good, not cheap-os like intrax or areospeed, you will regret it if you go with cheap springs/coils, just a thought