420A In need of some guidance

[midfb6]

I recently got my car back from the welder and have all my intercool piping done.
I'm ready to start installing the MS3 to the car so i have 2 questions.
1. Would it be better to piggy back the ecu till motor is broken in, Ik fully standalone is alot more work.
2.Would someone be some help on where to start on installing this MS3, Ive never done wiring to this measure and want to make sure i do it right.

I have ideas on how to do it if im wrong about it please say so.
I was gonna start off by connecting all the stock connector to the block or the designated area of connection then cut the wire and wire it to the correct pin out on the ms3.
If some one would be help and give me a very information explaination on where to start and what to do would be very helpful.
I know there's good but of threads about this but i wanted to start my own on to clear up questions i have or if i run across more question.

 

[pauleyman]

piggy back the ecu? What does this mean?

 

[midfb6]

piggy back the ecu? What does this mean?

Like leaving the stock pcm in the car and just using the ms3 for spark and fuel, i wanting to fully remove the stock pcm bc in the long run itll make my life easier i jus have no clue where to start, I know i need to sort the stock harness to what plugs go where and i can wire those up to the ms3 but when it comes to removing the stock pcm I'm lost for it , I know i need a voltage regulator , ive seen people add a fuse block but i dont know if it needed or not.

 

[pauleyman]

ms3 is not my area of expertise. I wasn't aware MS could piggyback or act as a standalone.

 

[midfb6]

ms3 is not my area of expertise. I wasn't aware MS could piggyback or act as a standalone.

From the forums and videos i've seen people have done it. There install videos would be more usefull if they showed more of the work they did instead of leaving alot of parts out.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

I think you have the right idea: it's good to not add too many variables at once. If your engine is new, it might be best to get it fully broken in before tackling the engine management. When you do, you can certainly install MS so it only controls fuel at first, then add spark, then have it take over the remainder of the things the stock PCM controls. You can also do it all at once, but it might be overwhelming if this is your first time.

For piggyback operation, MS needs power and ground, and sensor input from the CLT, IAT, O2, TPS, and crankshaft sensors, plus outputs to the injectors. Later, you can connect the camshaft sensor, ignition coil, and FP and ASD relays. After that, you can add outputs for the IAC, tachometer, and other miscellaneous things. Let me know if you have any specific questions.

 

[midfb6]

I think you have the right idea: it's good to not add too many variables at once. If your engine is new, it might be best to get it fully broken in before tackling the engine management. When you do, you can certainly install MS so it only controls fuel at first, then add spark, then have it take over the remainder of the things the stock PCM controls. You can also do it all at once, but it might be overwhelming if this is your first time.

For piggyback operation, MS needs power and ground, and sensor input from the CLT, IAT, O2, TPS, and crankshaft sensors, plus outputs to the injectors. Later, you can connect the camshaft sensor, ignition coil, and FP and ASD relays. After that, you can add outputs for the IAC, tachometer, and other miscellaneous things. Let me know if you have any specific questions.

Id love to run the car on the stock ecu to get to broken in but it has 775cc injectors, when installing the ms3 i have rlly one big question is the connector that went to the pcm in the engine bay what do people do with those are they good to cut off once full standalone, its been somthing i cant wrap my head around because every video or forums post i see dosent say anything about it, i just want to do this right have this car at its best.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Yes, you can cut it off if you're not using the stock PCM at all. Track down a copy of the electrical manual for your car to see what each wire does, or take a look here to get started:

2GNT.com - 1998_ECU

www.2gnt.com

 

[midfb6]

Yes, you can cut it off if you're not using the stock PCM at all. Track down a copy of the electrical manual for your car to see what each wire does, or take a look here to get started:

2GNT.com - 1998_ECU

www.2gnt.com

I do have the repair manual for the car , would you suggest using the ms3 jus for fuel sense i have those injectors then once the motor is broken in i could go ahead and full go standalone.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Sure, that would definitely make it easier to get started.

 

[midfb6]

Sure, that would definitely make it easier to get started.

sounds good will go with route for now till the motor has been broken in will forsure come back to this if i have anymore questions for you

 

[midfb6]

Sure, that would definitely make it easier to get started.

for wiring the fuel system i see i have 4 wire 2 injector bank 1 wire and 2 bank2 wires, i do see i can use bank 1 wire for all 4 of the injectors , but my questions is would i use both of the bank1 wires or just 1 of the wires? With just going the fuel route for now is there anything else i need to wire in other then the injectors.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

I would use both wires, one for injectors 1 and 4, and the other for 2 and 3. If you have MS3X and high-impedance fuel injectors, you can drive each injector with its own wire and eventually do sequential fuel injection--meaning the injector timing is synchronized with the engine cycle and valve timing.

 

[midfb6]

I would use both wires, one for injectors 1 and 4, and the other for 2 and 3. If you have MS3X and high-impedance fuel injectors, you can drive each injector with its own wire and eventually do sequential fuel injection--meaning the injector timing is synchronized with the engine cycle and valve timing.

I do not have a ms3x didnt opt in for it yet, But if i understand correctly use the Bank1 First wire for the 1st and 4th injector then use the second Bank 1 2nd wire for 2 and 3. For this would i splice the wires to give them same connections.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Yes, that's correct. In other words, you wire two injectors in parallel, connected to one output from MS.

 

[midfb6]

Yes, that's correct. In other words, you wire two injectors in parallel, connected to one output from MS.

There are the connectors for the fuel injectors would i wire them to the connector that goes into the fuel injector harness or have the waiter straight wired to the injectors

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[VelocitàPaola]

You need to splice the MS wires into your stock wiring harness, either near the injectors or near the PCM.

 

[midfb6]

You need to splice the MS wires into your stock wiring harness, either near the injectors or near the PCM.

Okay to my understand i cut the wire from stock harness to get the connector then wire them in to the connector according to to which pins the injectors go to then plug the stock harness in the fuel injector harness

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Yes, that's right.

 

[midfb6]

Yes, that's right.

Sounds good i very appreciate your help and patience with me , i’ll respond back to your reply if i got any more questions

 

[midfb6]

Yes, that's right.

Last quick question , On the wiring harness i have 5 wire which pin 1 and 4 are the 1 and 4 injector i would just splice those wires in to one with the ms wire, correct? The 5th wire i’m assuming is the 12v to fuse box should i leave that wire uncut and keep as is or do i need to wire it in some where else

 

[midfb6]

Yes, that's right.

Also one more thing once this is wired should i do the fuel pump also or is the injectors enuff to control the fuel to get the right afr for break in period

 

[VelocitàPaola]

You need it configured like this. However you do that is up to you. The stock PCM, as far as I can remember, should still supply 12V to the injectors as long as it's seeing a crank signal. It should also still activate the ASD and fuel pump relays. You can eventually have MS control those too, but you don't need to change anything there at first.

https://www.symtechlabs.com/docs/ms_wiring_guide-420A-2_0.png

 

[midfb6]

You need it configured like this. However you do that is up to you. The stock PCM, as far as I can remember, should still supply 12V to the injectors as long as it's seeing a crank signal. It should also still activate the ASD and fuel pump relays. You can eventually have MS control those too, but you don't need to change anything there at first.

https://www.symtechlabs.com/docs/ms_wiring_guide-420A-2_0.png

Ok for time being what imma do is leave the 12 volt to the ASD if that should work sense im only wiring the injectors. For configuration, I want to use both the bank 1 wires meaning ,cut the stock harness plug enuff to use the wire then, Splice Bank 1" wire 1" in the Stock harness pin 1 and 4 to control 1 and 4 injector , then i will Splice Bank "1" wire "2" in the Stock harness pin 2 and 3 to control injector 2 and 3.
If this sounds right or a decent configuration then i will do this route.

 

[midfb6]

You need it configured like this. However you do that is up to you. The stock PCM, as far as I can remember, should still supply 12V to the injectors as long as it's seeing a crank signal. It should also still activate the ASD and fuel pump relays. You can eventually have MS control those too, but you don't need to change anything there at first.

https://www.symtechlabs.com/docs/ms_wiring_guide-420A-2_0.png

After some more research I'm going to do Bank 1 wire one for 1 and 4 and bank 2 wire 1 for 2 and 3 , if the splicing method is okay to do, with the combing the 1 and 4 / 2 and 3 wire, into once with Ms3 harness. Unless i Need to use Bank 1 wire 1 and 2 and bank 2 wire 1 and 2 for each but showes each bank can run 6 cylinders , so im assuming the slicing them in a single wire before the plug connection It'll work for when it pluged in the injector harness has there on 4 wires and the sliced wires will have there 4 but then spliced into 2 once combineing them