IC's...Air/Air or Air/Water? [Merged 7-7] intercooler liquid

[dsmturboawd]

so whats a good stock sidemount to make one out of. obviously the only important thing is how well it flows, no longer its cooling efficiency.

would a stock 300z intercooler flow better than say a stock dsm ic?

also, would i be safe to assume that you would rip out all the cooling fins before welding a plate on the front and back of the ic?

 

[KGB Pilot125]

your gonna wanna leave the fins in there, the help cool. check out syty.net under the classifieds sometimes you can find the stock syty intercooler for sale when people upgrade to a FMIC. although the stock water to air has gone 11's in a typhoon.

 

[Ralli///Art GS]

H2O-RC Kit.......Thats the worst product i have ever seen, how the hell are you going to cool the motor by water on the radiator. In the dead of winter my water temp is the same as in the summer. The thermostat will just adjust to make the motor run at peak efficiency/operating temperature. The weight added with all the water and fancy water products on your car would probably slow you down more than it's worth.

 

[dsmturboawd]

you in the right thread?

 

[krustindumm]

I'll try to explain the setup I had (my IC blew up or I would still be running it). This was in a 91 Civic HB running a T25.

The IC core was a 6"x8" alminum oil cooler (3/8" inlet/outlet) with a custom housing, the best flow (from my research) is when flowing across the tubes (think the air going through your rad) then through the tubes (like a intercooler). I built the housing out of steel, the problem was the joint between the two halves, they didn't like staying sealed, and I blew out the seal.

I used the factory resonator box (which had the drain holes sealed) for a resivoir and added a filler neck at the top. Holds aproximatly 1 gallon.

The front mount heat exchanger was the ingenious part (IMHO). It was about 18"x24", aluminum, and had 3/8" inlet/outlet just like the IC. ####ing huge. Now how would you mount that you may ask, or even where would you find one? My car came with it already mounted that's right, the A/C condensor

Now I didn't get much done with the control unit before I ditched the air/water setup (which is for sale cheap if anyone wants to fuk with it). I did have some plans though.

I was going to install a 2 way solonoid valve (like from a dual gas tank setup), one way and the water flows only through the heat exchanger, the other and it flows through both the exchanger and the IC. I had a valve so that I could make it flow through the IC only as well (but it was not electronic). This circuit was to be switched by a hobbs switch, so that under boost I was cooling the intake, and otherwise I was cooling the water at max capacity. It would also have an override switch for when the resivoir was flled with ice (switch to through IC, shut off flow through front mount). Inside I had a switch to turn the pump on and off (ign switched, so it stayed on most of the time).

Here is a pic:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Don't make fun of the mess, that was like 2 days after the install, it is super clean now. In the corner behind the pass. headlight you can see the cap for the resivoir, the pump is inside it (needed a better pump, that one was rated at 500gph but flowed like 2gph :thumbdown). The black box is the IC, I covered it with undercoat to prevent heatsoak, the piping is high temp plastic, also to prevent heatsoak. There was almost no lag, with full boost at 2500rpm, even with a 1.5L

-Dustin

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

max cooling effcieny for the water is always flowing through the IC....when you are not boosting the air flowing through the IC is ambient....cools down the water the exact same as the heat exchanger does....think about it.

 

[krustindumm]

It is coing through the turbo, and the piping is located in the engine compartment. As is the inlet of my turbo. If you have a problem with it don't do it, I didn't, I am in the process of switching to a FMIC.

-Dustin

 

[smokehouse_83]

My Idea would be to remove the passanger seat and throw in a big walmart cooler, then you could just drop in a stock sidemount intercooler and run the piping in and out and epoxy the area around the holes were the pipeing goes through. Then you would run a inlet and outlet in near the bottom and put a pump on it and pump the water out to a big ass heat exchanger and back in. The cooler would be your water jacket for the intercooler and your resivor and also could hold your barley pop!!! This would be by far the cheapest way to do a water to air intercooler the only expensive parts would be the pump and the intercooler piping and the piping might end up being longer then would be with a front mount so you would loose the instant spool. A big cooler can hold alot of water, but you would have to seal the top shut so it didnt fly open going around corners and you would loose your passanger seat. You would also need to put some screen over the intercooler so you didnt bend the fins with ice and barley pop. You could also fill the cooler with dry ice or spray c02 into it to supercool it before a run. You could sell your passanger seat to offset cost . Also you would want to pressure check your intercooler before use, because if it leaked you would be SOL.

Cooler- $free-20 (if you have an extra)
Stock sidemount intecooler- $Free-50
Heat exchanger- $free-50 (for whatever you use)
Intercooler piping- $50-200
Hose for heat exchanger- $10-20
Pump- $10-100

 

[dsmturboawd]

putting the ic in the car completely defeats the entire purpose of running a air/water ic setup. also, this idea is totally impractical.

 

[justa4cyl]

Good God
I started this thread and I'm going to end it.
Ijust started building my racecar and Idecided just to go with what's natural and easy a Buschur Racing air to air intercooler witha 3" and 2.5" outlets on the end tank supposed to support 1000 HP. Which is way more HP than I'm going to be running so enough said.

 

[dsmturboawd]

the thread has evolved. let it go...

did you get your answer? if so, sweet. now let others inquire about this idea. tia.

 

[AWD92TalonTSi]

I know this thread did not turn up anything very conclusive, I've been thinking about doing this for a while. and with my senior design project in ME looming it seems like a good time to do it. my idea would be designing a setup with guidance from some of my profs, building it, and testing it.

are there any commerically availabe kits out there? i've looked and cant find any.

i see there are a few set ups like this, so its obviously do-able. what kind of hp/times are you running?

many of the opinions on this site are that they are only for drag use.
some of the things i am going to look at:

-flow rates: if the stock sidemount inlet/outlet is enlarged can it flow enough air to make decent power, also wide range of powers or limited
-size of pump/resivoir/h2o heatXer: if it cant get rid of the heat whats the point"
-typical wot/cruise/idle intake mani temps with stock side mount/big air to air/my anticipated set ups.
-response of intake temp due to speed :air through intercooler is speeding resulting in more convection
-good location of h20 heatxer
-location of the intercooler: i have my battery in the back and this opens up a good chunk of space, could it fit?
-failure protection: hydrolock is no fun
-pump size
-fluid needed: h20, coolant, water wetter
-long term effects of water or scale build up: can i add something in the coolant to prevent this, or a cleaner
-size of h20 lines: its all about flow
-temp of water: will it reach 100 C: do i need to pressurize system?

If there's anything else you guys can come up with or have any comments let me know. There's a good chance this will get a thumbs up from the school.
I start the planning class in may 04 and will be finished in december

 

[Defiant]

Originally posted by AWD92TalonTSi
are there any commerically availabe kits out there? i've looked and cant find any.

Spearco makes air/liquid ICs.

http://www.turboneticsinc.com/liquid.html

many of the opinions on this site are that they are only for drag use.

Because most of them use an ice resevoir system, and few have icemakers on-board.

some of the things i am going to look at:

-flow rates: if the stock sidemount inlet/outlet is enlarged can it flow enough air to make decent power, also wide range of powers or limited
-size of pump/resivoir/h2o heatXer: if it cant get rid of the heat whats the point

And this part may be as far as you get. It was for me. The DSMs have plenty of room for enough air/air ICs.

-typical wot/cruise/idle intake mani temps with stock side mount/big air to air/my anticipated set ups.

Figure ...eh... 190°F (after a stock IC) WOT, 50° above ambient at cruise, and (unless heat-soaked) at or just below ambient at idle.

-response of intake temp due to speed :air through intercooler is speeding resulting in more convection

Heat transfer relies on relative temperatures, amount of exposure, and time of exposure. Air in an intake system is going _damned_ fast, so your last two are generally reduced.

-good location of h20 heatxer

I like along the rear of the block. The shorter the intake path, the better.

-location of the intercooler: i have my battery in the back and this opens up a good chunk of space, could it fit?

Yes, and this would let you use the sidemount location for the intercooler coolant radiator.

-failure protection: hydrolock is no fun

A non-issue. The intercooler will be built for it, and the amount of water actually needed to hydrolock an engine is huge.

-pump size
-fluid needed: h20, coolant, water wetter

The pump requirement is large, as is the power to drive it. Another stumbling block for me. By "coolant" you should mean "antifreeze". Water is a "coolant". You engineering instructor will box your ears for talking like that.

-long term effects of water or scale build up: can i add something in the coolant to prevent this, or a cleaner

Antifreeze. 30%.

-size of h20 lines: its all about flow

3/4" should run plenty. I don't know what flow you'll need, that's thermo stuff.

-temp of water: will it reach 100 C: do i need to pressurize system?

You'd better not. Out of a T-25 at full wheeze, you're running air around 230°F. You're not at peak all the time.

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

As tested on a 2g with a difital thermometer, 19 psi, a T25 was belting out air at 300 degrees F and after the IC was at 150. That was on a cold night at 100 MPH though.

The stock IC area is not big enough for a heat exchanger. The AC condensor might be good. A honda radiator would be better.

 

[MNGSX]

New concept...

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Barrel water to air IC's

 

[dsmturboawd]

why dont we just buy a kit while were at it?

this is more of a "fabricate your own" kinda thing. Those are about 400 bucks, more than half the amount i plan to spend on this entire setup.

Cheers.

 

[boostcrazy92tsi]

lookin to get an intercooler for a possible 16g or bigger setup. i know i havent seen it much on here but what about a liquid intercooler. i know the typhoon ran one when it came out and they take up alot less space then a fmic. Has anyone attempted this??????? let me know the pros and cons.

Thanks

Jason

 

[herostar]

A FMIC would be a better bet for high-boost applications unless this is a drag-only car. I'm guessing it's not because you are getting a 16g turbo. A liquid-cooled intercooler is good for a while, but it heat soaks very easily, is expensive, and requires lots of little things to make it work. Front mounts are less expensive, in many cases easier to install, and better for daily driving.

 

[Defiant]

Er... you're supposed to cool the liquid in the intercooler, either by providing a cold coolant source (racing) or running it through another heat exchanger.

Air-to-liquid intercoolers work really well, but you see you have twice the work to do it for street use. Which is why you seldom hear of, and never see one.

 

[Defiant]

.

 

[Defiant]

. .

 

[markgholland]

What do you think that your total cost is going to be? I've been looking into this setup for a few weeks now, and I have decided to go with it. I don't really plan on running my car on the street much, which was ultimatly the deciding factor in whether to do the FMIC or the W/A setup. I just bought a spearco 2-231 to use as my core. If you refer to page one of this long winding post, you'll notice links to a REALLY good setup. I plan to do the exact same thing, using many of the same parts. If you still want more info, check out this link:

http://wraithmr2.com/air2water.htm

It pretty much tells you how they built a W/A setup on a MR2, but there is a lot of good info there. Just my $.02.

 

[dsmturboawd]

i was thinking about using a stock ic and modifying it or getting a ic out of a typhoon or something. those spearco ic's are hella expensive. cheaper the better really. it should cost like 200 all said and done if i play my cards right.

nice link .

 

[markgholland]

Mine wasn't that expensive; I bought it from Kerry Runnoe used and got a pretty good deal. You may be better off paying a little more and getting a higher quality product rather than using parts from different cars, etc. Someone had an idea on here to use the radiator from the honda dx... excellent idea, and I may look in to this. I also may pick up a heat exchanger from a ford Lightning SVT. They are HUGE, but expensive...

I have a friend who is thinking about taking a stock smic and reversing the flow and making a W/A setup, but the more he thinks about it, the more he wants to just buy one. Are you really good at welding? It's a lot of work, but hey, if you can do it, go for it and let us know how it turns out.

 

[JessesTalon]

OK heres the real way of how to do it

get a small refrigerator, make sure it will fit in your bumper around your SMIC...

THEN

turn it on whenever your driving... cold charging for life?


hehe, Great Idea and I really like to see some more #'s of the performance gains from air/water or air/air