IC's...Air/Air or Air/Water? [Merged 7-7] intercooler liquid

[TheObiJuan]

no. water injection injects water directly into the air stream whereas the water/air intercooler is a radiator essentially for the air. a reverse radiator actually. (water cools air vs air cooling water)

water/alcohol injection works great in conjuction with water/air intercoolers though.

 

[jdk906s]

Originally posted by TheObiJuan
no. water injection injects water directly into the air stream whereas the water/air intercooler is a radiator essentially for the air. a reverse radiator actually. (water cools air vs air cooling water)

water/alcohol injection works great in conjuction with water/air intercoolers though.

Actually, I was refering to it being useful to achieve the same results, not doing the same thing.

The water being sprayed into the intercooler air stream will assist in cooling the air as it is made more dense - offsetting some of the intake temp hike created by higher pressure of forced induction. You'll want the air as dense as possible, but still keeping the temp in check. This is similar to the effect a more efficient intercooler would have.

The water injected at the throttle body will drastically reduce combustion chamber temps allowing for increased boost or timing advance. Something an intercooler can't do directly very well.

 

[Defiant]

I'd like to go to an A/L IC, hook it up with a circulator, something like an oil radiator in the old sidemount location, and a thermostat fan. I'd imagine you'd get fairly good flow with a thermosiphon (seemed to work okay on the Model T), but where's the complication in that?

 

[JayHass]

Originally posted by Defiant
I'd like to go to an A/L IC, hook it up with a circulator, something like an oil radiator in the old sidemount location, and a thermostat fan. I'd imagine you'd get fairly good flow with a thermosiphon (seemed to work okay on the Model T), but where's the complication in that?

Keep in mind you will need more surface area for the heat exhanger than an IC to pull the heat out of the water. A little oil cooler job WILL NOT do it. Think Civic DX radiator size.

 

[P8ntBalla]

Originally posted by RabidDonkeyBoy
p.s. what kind of manifold is that person running? i've never seen that cast manifold before..

i believe it is a manifold for a t4(t61, t66, etc) setup. not sure though.

 

[DrZiplok]

Originally posted by JayHass


Keep in mind you will need more surface area for the heat exhanger than an IC to pull the heat out of the water. A little oil cooler job WILL NOT do it. Think Civic DX radiator size.

I also note that Spearco make a point of noting that the oil coolers have the wrong geometry etc. for cooling water. I've been doing some research recently since this idea's appealing to me as well.

The smaller of the PWR units (linear blow-through, 4" dia 6" core length) is actually looking pretty tempting, but finding a suitable radiator does seem to be an interesting challenge. I'm sure that IRC or someone similar could cook up a low-profile radiator that would live in a location similar to an FMIC, the real questions would be cost and pressurisation (since there's no way to set up a filler cap that low in the system, burping it might be a challenge).

Ken, if you're reading this, any thoughts?

 

[Defiant]

Originally posted by JayHass


Keep in mind you will need more surface area for the heat exhanger than an IC to pull the heat out of the water. A little oil cooler job WILL NOT do it. Think Civic DX radiator size.

Hmm. Perplexing. Also, frustrating- any heat you have to get rid of in an engine is energy being wasted. It's the 21st century, aren't we suposed to be using ceramic pistons by now?

 

[justa4cyl]

I have a supra MKIV side mount sitting around my house. So my brother picks it up the other day and says lets make an air to water i/c for you talon. He's made them for S4's before and other german cars but i've never seen one on a DSM. He's working on it right now and is not done yet. I understand that they are good b/c they work even when your not moving. I am a little sceptical and was wondering what your take on the subjedt was or if anyone's ver seen one on a DSM.

 

[Defiant]

I thought it sounded good too, but once you cool the intercooler, you gotta cool the exchanger water. Where you gonna put that heat exchanger, and how're you gonna move the fluid? It got really ugly, really fast.
Just air through the Supra IC is supposed to be a big enough improvement to save the hassle. You might be better-off looking into water or propane injection.

 

[candela]

My take: They work much more efficiently in many more applications than any air/air intercooler. IMO, to make one work decently youll need a pretty big fuggin cooler...Prolly something in equivalency in size to 2 times as thick as the raciator with about the same L and W... Thre are lots of different setups you could go with though. Ask 90gsx, he has been working on one for a while now I beleive.

 

[DV8tion]

I think that would work great. I looked at the same thing, but I could not think if a reliable way to seal the water side b/c the supra ic. has plastic tanks. I dont see any reason to run a heat exchanger unless it is an auto-Xer. Are you going to keep you air to air? I would. I would just have an Ice water tank with a pump. You only need to keep ice in it when you have the boost turned way up. The best thing about an air to water is that you can overrun the hell out of your turbo and still have cool air charge temps.

 

[candela]

From every settup Ive seen with air/water coolers heat exchangers work the best for street cars. Its different for a drag car yes, but an autocross car is basically a street car in that its not a simple one pass-stop type thing. I was definetly disproven by how efficient they are by a friend a while ago (by real world cars) and have since really been a fan.

 

[justa4cyl]

He says he will be using a heat exchanger and were going to put my battery in my trunk so i can make a big resivior for the water/ice and i dont think the intercooler has to be that fuggin huge because dosnt buschurs 2nd gen talon use an air to water thats only like 12"/12" hopefully it'l be done before the June 14th DSM meet at englishtown so I can show it off. Thanks for the replies and the boost of confidence

 

[kc92awd]

Hey, I have a 1990 Lotus Esprit with a factory liquid to air intercooler. First of all, it works far better than air to air. If you can do it, go for it. Also, you will not need a huge intercooler. Liquid to air intercoolers are much smaller than air to air. A liquid to air the size of a shoe box will cool A LOT!

The main problem is you will need a way to cool the liquid after it is pumped through the intercooler, otherwise it's worthless. In my case, it is a second radiator behind the main one. The way I would go about it would be to find an aftermarked radiator that is thinner but cools as well as stock, that way you will have enough room to stack them. You will need hoses and preferably and electric pump to move the liquid through the radiator and back to the intercooler.

Idealy, you will have a seperate resovior you can fill with ice water to use at the track, and you can switch between your main fluid and the ice water tank. Then you can fill the resovoir with ice water before a drag race, but keep your regular liquid cycling on the street. Good luck.

 

[Adrenaline]

H2O Racing Technology

I think you might be interested in looking into this companies products. I purchased one of there kits, the Insane Cooling kit, and it has made a huge difference in my cars performance! I am pushing some serious boost. I was previously at 300hp and now its closer to 350hp. Basically, these units cool the air traveling through my SMIC, RAM air and radiator by as much as 15 degrees. Thus decreasing the cars ECU readings and incresing the boost. The company is called H2O Racing Technology and from what I understand is that there a team of engineers who came together to create this company, specializing in aftermarket high performance equipment for sport compact cars. I have spent over $7,ooo on my car and aside from my Supersequential Bolow Off Valve, this is the most effective product I've bought so far. And the price is actually very reasonable. Well, hope this helps let me know what you think. Good luck

 

[Enigma_Man]

Those products all seem a little ridiculous... Cooling your radiator? Why not just go with a lower-value thermostat? The radiator can cool the water just fine....

The coolers for the ICs look like a good idea, but it also looks like they block more air then would be helpful.

The "ram air" cooler wouldn't do poop, because the air only passes by there for a split second, there's no time or surface area enough to cool it down.

Anyway, you'd think this "team of engineers" would be able to make something a little better than an AOL homepage with center-aligned bright and bold fonts

Hehe, well, enough picking apart, I'm sure Adrenaline and his amazing spelling powers have heard enough about his shoddy company (just a guess, stop me if I'm wrong). Most effective bolow off valve ever. My bolow off valve netted me a gain of 3000 horsepower!!!!11 Hehehe, we all know how important those super-sequential valves are... Yep.... HAHA, I just looked at the "detailed" pictures of some of the setups. It's the newest application of squirt-gun technology I'm looking at what looks like a hand-pump, and a trigger thing, a-la supersoaker. Baaahaha.


Back to reality, how many people run air/water ICs on their car? What'd you do for cooling down the water? How hard would it be to just shoe-horn a smaller radiator in front of the actual one (like one from a VW or something like that, just a random guess)?

-Jesse

 

[VRC Racing]

Here are a couple of pics of my Air/Water setup.

http://users.erols.com/rcoxe/images/2001_build/DCP_0538.JPG
http://www.ddsm.org/vrcracing/images/2003_build/DCP_0686.JPG
http://www.ddsm.org/vrcracing/images/2003_build/DCP_0696.JPG

I use a 3 gal fuel cell for the ice/water mixture. I charge the system with 5 lbs of ice and about a quart of water for every quarter mile pass.
Most all of the ice is gone after the run. I would not recommend this kind of setup on a street car. Works well at the strip PITA on the street.

Russ Coxe
VRC Racing
www.vrcracing.com

 

[DirtyBirdRacing]

Hi,

My friend has a modded A4, that is very nice, and is very into Audi tuning and he told me about this site were the audi tuning company has develop a iquid to air intercooler for their shop car and is making a system for street cars.

http://www.awe-tuning.com/pages/sha...vetrain.cfm&PPT=Drivetrain&IL=s4 intercoolers

Almost all of what the audi website says has been mentioned here in this thread, but I hope this helps.

Bill

 

[2gdsm_nc]

Originally posted by VRC Racing
Here are a couple of pics of my Air/Water setup.

http://users.erols.com/rcoxe/images/2001_build/DCP_0538.JPG
http://www.ddsm.org/vrcracing/images/2003_build/DCP_0686.JPG
http://www.ddsm.org/vrcracing/images/2003_build/DCP_0696.JPG

I use a 3 gal fuel cell for the ice/water mixture. I charge the system with 5 lbs of ice and about a quart of water for every quarter mile pass.
Most all of the ice is gone after the run. I would not recommend this kind of setup on a street car. Works well at the strip PITA on the street.

Russ Coxe
VRC Racing
www.vrcracing.com

just looked at your sight awsome isall i have to say. hell of a job on the eclipse. yes that is envy you hear.
like the seat in this pic
http://www.ddsm.org/vrcracing/images/2003_build/DCP_0673.JPG
just kidding, who did you purchase the front clip from? thanks sorry i didnt mean to hijack.

 

[justa4cyl]

Originally posted by 123bobby123
Hi,

My friend has a modded A4, that is very nice, and is very into Audi tuning and he told me about this site were the audi tuning company has develop a iquid to air intercooler for their shop car and is making a system for street cars.

http://www.awe-tuning.com/pages/sha...vetrain.cfm&PPT=Drivetrain&IL=s4 intercoolers

Almost all of what the audi website says has been mentioned here in this thread, but I hope this helps.

Bill

That is actually pretty funny that you mention AWE because I'm the guy that originally started this thread and the guy building my AIR to WATER I/C is my brother who works at AWE and makes parts for them. AND as for RUSS COXE that is a bad Ass set up you got there hopefully mine will look half as good as that. Ill keep you updated when its all done and post pics.

 

[93TSIAWD]

Awhile back I saw in the dsmtuners gallery, someone with a air/water fmic. I belive it was in a 1g and the shape of the fmic was a cylinder shape. Does anyone have pics of that or another car with the same set-up. Where can I buy one. I have searched, but not finding my answers. thanks

 

[candela]

all custom baby...

 

[93TSIAWD]

ok, but there was a company who made the actual intercooler. Do you have that company?

 

[sergiosdsm]

would the air to water intercooler setup be good for a car that is driven daily, since i dont plan on making my car a drag car anytime soon

 

[QuickerDSM]

I'm going to build my own liquid/air intercooler. It looks as though a stock smic would work perfect. One thing to keep in mind is that the charged air side, and ambient sides are reversed when converting a air/air core to a liquid/air core. This means that the pressure side becomes the liquid carrier and the ambient side becsomes the pressure side. This, in turn, should mean much less pressure drop through the core. I plan to run a marine bilge pump for the water circulation, along with a auto trans. cooler for the heat exchanger to cool the water.

Overall this should prove to be a cheap/easy alternative to an expensive fmic IMHO.

Mike