I pulled off my timing belt without marking it,How do I Time the engine?

[ScreamSalvation]

Well,

Being I have never worked on interference engines I have made my first of I'm sure many errors. Got everything in to do my timing belt and balance shaft removals.

Long story short: Been putting the eclipse into running order from the Previous Owner messing everything up, well, it was sitting and idling and the balance shaft belt broke and hit the timing belt. My luck was apparently in good standing that day and the timing belt ate the balance shaft belt into tiny shreds, the timing belt didn't even skip a tooth. Well I decided to remove the balance shafts to not have to worry about this again.

I finally got everything in the mail and did the balance shaft removal but I forgot to rotate the crank and cams with the belt on so now I have the problem of getting everything in time without the old belt on.

I was thinking I could remove the valve cover and put the cams so that all valves are closed (possible?), then turn the crank to where it needs to be (cylinder 1 on a compression stroke?), then set the cams to where they need to be (exhaust valves open on cylinder 1, right?) and put all my new timing stuff on.

Anyone have a better idea? I know there is a proper way to do it since people have the heads sent off for a rebuild and you start from basically where I am when they come back.

 

[byebyev8]

Line up the two notches on the cams, and make sure the pistons are not at TDC(top dead center). Then go from there you could go to vfaq or read the tech articles.

 

[ScreamSalvation]

So with the cam marks aligned all the valves are closed and there is no risk of bending one as long as the pistons are not at TDC?

 

[97GSTAUTO]

Set cylinder 1 at TDC. Align cam timing marks as defined in VFAQ. Thats it!. Dont worry about taking the valve cover off.

 

[97GSTAUTO]

So with the cam marks aligned all the valves are closed and there is no risk of bending one as long as the pistons are not at TDC?

Sorry. Opened up the thread and left and came back.. forgot to refresh. You have to be very careful when rotating the crank. Prob what I would do is rotate the crank alittle and then rotate each cam until you reach tdc on cylinder 1.

 

[Butterfinger]

Hey just did mine last night there's a notch on the sheet metal disk behind the crank gear, if your looking at the crank on a 2g 4g63 the mark on the block is around 11:00 The mark on the oil pump is easy to see there is an arrow on the cover over the gear but should not matter if you took out your balance shaft's. And the two cam gears obviously have easy to see marks on the gears and need to meet in the middle. take out spark plugs to make it easier to turn the crank (make sure car's in neutral) make sur your not at TDC when rotating cams. Do a search for pic's

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-engine-fuel/182787-how-change-your-timing-...

 

[TeclipseFTW]

Ok, I pulled off the timing belt without marking it and now I need to know how to time my engine right. The reason I pulled it off without marking it is because I think it jumped a tooth or two. Yes, I know this probably means I need my head redone and new valves installed. How do I time it? Thanks

 

[boostin92awd]

You can find out how in here Articles: Engine & Fuel - DSM Forums

 

[Silver 95 GST]

also here


Timing Belt VFAQ (Timing Belt TSB - ENHANCED)

 

[91DSMdragin]

trust the vfaq way! that's what i used last build and its the best advice....just remember to rotate the engine a couple of times by hand before you put all the covers back on and reassemble. it can take anywhere from 4 to 8 rotations before everything is in proper alignment. BE PATIENT!!

 

[TeclipseFTW]

Not helping. If it skipped a tooth then I wouldn't be able to put it into top dead center b4 taking the t-belt off. So, can I allign or rotate the crank and cams when the belt is off? Just slight rotations. Is this An interference engine?

 

[holo82]

I would say that if it only skipped a tooth, you should be fine. Best way to tell is to pull the head and check your valves or time it and run compression check if you don't feel like replacing the head gasket.

You'll want to follow the Vfaq on the timing, making sure cylinder#1 is top dead center and that your cam marks line up with each other and run parallel to the surface of the head.
I won't cover the whole timing process, but if you're uncomfortable doing it yourself, grab an experienced friend or family member to help...

The best advice I can give after that is double check all marks, as if you're more than a couple teeth off and you decide to crank it up, you could be sorry

Good Luck!
-Matt

 

[TeclipseFTW]

If I didn't make myself clear, the belt is already off, now I want to know if I can move the cams and the crank slightly to make them TDC?

 

[snowborder714]

How far do they need to be moved? If it's just slight movements, that's fine. You will have to move the cams anyway since they don't sit properly without tension on them.

 

[holo82]

I understand that the belt is off... doesn't matter. Pull your spark plugs (to make the crank turn easier) and set the marks on the pulleys.
I guess I'm unclear what you're trying to do, by "moving it slightly".... I would suggest to make sure everything is lined up not just cams and crank.

Crank Timing Mark
Oil Pump sprocket timing mark
Cam timing marks
tensioner etc.

Did you read the vfaq?

 

[IE Spyder]

When I tweaked with my dad's gst timing my uncle and I were able to move the front sprocket after removing the belt off the camshaft. We aligned cylinder 1 to be at TDC (top dead center) and on the stock camshafts there are markings that should be horizontal with each other. The car was off timing about one tooth and ran nasty.

 

[holo82]

When I tweaked with my dad's gst timing my uncle and I were able to move the front sprocket after removing the belt off the camshaft. We aligned cylinder 1 to be at TDC (top dead center) and on the stock camshafts there are markings that should be horizontal with each other. The car was off timing about one tooth and ran nasty.

True that! My brother's was off one tooth and wouldn't even run. But my fear is... more than 2-3 teeth (15*) and we could have some collision...

 

[TeclipseFTW]

Sorry for the slow responces,, I'm doing this all from my phone. Yes I read the vfaq and the haynes manual, the teeth aren't off that much. When I alligned the crank pulley mark with the lower timing belt covers timing mark, the cams were one tooth off,. The only crankshaft timing mark is on the pulley itself right?

 

[holo82]

I lined the cams up first like in the haynes, squeezed the wrenches together to hold them, and slipped the t-belt over the cam gears. I used some cheap spring clamps to hold the belt on the cams and proceeded to the crank and oil sprocket.

There should be a mark on the block itself (not the t-belt cover) that you would want to go by. There's a mark on the pulley (you cannot see it with the lower t-belt cover on either). Line those two up then.

 

[TeclipseFTW]

I'm just allitle confused because the hanyes book has this huge wArning saying "do not rotate crankshaft or camshafts after timing belt has been removed" I don't want to bend any valves or anything, just being safe.

 

[holo82]

First of all, I doubt you could bend the valves by turning the crank with a ratchet (by hand)... secondly, after you assemble it and make sure the marks are set... you're going to rotate the crank (with the ratchet) about 8 times and if you cannot rotate it, you likely have the car out of time. Beware though, being dead on and 1-tooth off time looks very similar... could be the difference from the car running, and not even starting

 

[91DSMdragin]

ok, when you have the timing belt removed... the camshafts automaticaly roll to a position of the least resistance(valves closed or barely cracked open). you can then move the crankshaft freely. just make sure the dowel pins in the camshaft gears are in the upward position. once you have the crankshaft sprocket timing mark is lined up with its arrow mark on the block it is time to move to the oil pump timing. once again just line the mark on the sprocket with the mark on the block.
once you have those lower marks lined up then it is time for the cams. make sure your marks on the cam gears( there are 2 on each gear) are dead level in line with the deck plane of the cylinder head(the flat edge that the valve cover bolts to). at this point you will need to have some sort of way to lock the cams into position while you install the belt, i use a box end wrench on the sprocket bolt and tie it in place with double looped wire. the wire allows you to tighten and loosen in a manner to adjust sprocket little by little. once all is in place, slip the belt onto all the sprockets making sure they stay lined up as you do so. if you dont have a friend helping , you night want to have a couple of clamps to hold the belt on the sprockets as you move from one to the next.

MAKE SURE THE SPROCKETS STAY LINED UP AS YOU INSTALL THE TENSIONER!! that is the most agrevating part of doing this. dont get mad if you cant get it the first time. i always end up having to fiddle with it to get it lined up right.


i hope this helps. happy tuning.