How to Surface a 4G63T Cylinder head for a MLS head gasket

[BogusSVO]

How to resurface a 4G63T Head For a MLS head gasket.



I use a Comec Auto I 1000 High Speed Milling Machine with CBN insert for Cast Iron OR a PCD Insert for Aluminum Heads
This machine is double adjustable, I can adjust the spindle speed and the table travel speed to achieve the surface finish that is required.
Auto I 1000 CBN Surfacer


The first thing to do is check the valve cover surface for any burrs and remove them.

Next is to mount the head in the machine and check the level of the head in both directions.

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Then the other way, this head was not out that bad from the last time it was milled.

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I did a "getting to know you" pass of .002 to see how square the head was. This was done on a faster setting.
Notice the upper and left side of the head is dull, this is a low spot. The head was not index properly and did not maintain a proper "square" to the valve cover surface.

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I made another cut of .003, I sped up the cutter, and slowed the table speed.

This is the end result.

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Another different view.

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Now with a proper surface, and the head re-squared, The customer will have no issues with a MLS gasket sealing, and also having a closer to equal combustion chamber size.


this is a good vid to watch, it shows BOTH the belt sand method, (NOT TO DO) and it shows the method I use, A high speed milling with a .500 insert. (THE ONE TO USE)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-mHiuOyR4M]YouTube - Resurfacing an Aluminum Cylinder Head[/ame]

 

[DSM_PWR]

.... and for only $18k-$20k... you too can resurface your own head ...

 

[BogusSVO]

Well they do finance........

 

[e85_4g63]

.... and for only $18k-$20k... you too can resurface your own head ...

Now if only they made those $250 eBay 16g's that easy to fix!

 

[delta448]

The head looks nice but what about the block deck, isn't that fairly important also? Also, know any good tricks to remove the locating dowels in the block? I've heard about a trick involving grease...

Another random question... how do you feel about drilling out and retapping a block for larger diameter headstuds?

BTW, I'm pretty stoked that we have a machinist who posts these kinds of interesting threads, in case nobody could tell...

 

[BogusSVO]

yes the block deck is is just as important, the block is cast Iron, and if your are doin the HG with the short block in the car, not much you can do about the surface. DO NOT CLEAN THE BLOCK DECK WITH A ROL-LOC!!!!!!! you will end up 'waving" the surface of the block with it!
a hand held paint and body hard back long board with 80-100 grit sand paper is what I recomend. then a light coat of permatex copper coat on the block should do the job.

as far as the over sized head studs, if your running the boost levels to need them, the block should have the full deal done, starting with the head mod studs, then tourque plate bore and hone and block decking.
it is simple why, the engineers who did the design on the block figured in the distortion factor of the head bolts, goin to larger studs will change the amount of distortion and where the block distorts.
I would say do not change the stud size with the block in the car.

 

[delta448]

People I trust have told me both ways about the headstuds.

The reason I asked is not because I'll be running so much power, but because of the difference in size of the headstuds between the 6 bolt engines which used a 12mm bolt, and the later 7 bolt engines which used a 11mm bolt.

I have a pristine 6 bolt head with some mild port work I'd like to use, but I want to mate it to a 7 bolt 2.4L 4G64 bottom end. To do so safely, I will need to machine the block to accept the larger diameter studs that the head requires.

 

[xsboost]

How much does a resurface job like that normally cost?

 

[Killa_dsm]

BTW, I'm pretty stoked that we have a machinist who posts these kinds of interesting threads, in case nobody could tell...

+1 on that

Thanks for posting this information, its very educational!

 

[90rslaser]

a hand held paint and body hard back long board with 80-100 grit sand paper is what I recomend. then a light coat of permatex copper coat on the block should do the job.QUOTE]

will this work even if youre using the mls gasket? the sand paper and copper spray?

 

[BogusSVO]

People I trust have told me both ways about the headstuds.

The reason I asked is not because I'll be running so much power, but because of the difference in size of the headstuds between the 6 bolt engines which used a 12mm bolt, and the later 7 bolt engines which used a 11mm bolt.

I have a pristine 6 bolt head with some mild port work I'd like to use, but I want to mate it to a 7 bolt 2.4L 4G64 bottom end. To do so safely, I will need to machine the block to accept the larger diameter studs that the head requires.

If that is the case, and your boost pressure isnt going to be way up there, over 25psi, I think you should be able to use the 11mm head studs for the 7 bolt block with out issue.

1mm = .0394 thoundsandths so you would gain appox .020 around the stud, (and this may be benifical if you plan on feeding oil to your turbo from the head, like a 1g does)

I do not believe this would hurt the clamping of the gasket seal.
Also the alignment dowels will line the block/gasket/head up.

The reason I say this, Is beacuse of years of putting 351w heads on a 5.0l, both Cast iron and alum.
A 351w has a 1/2 inch head bolt, and a 5.0l has a 7/16 head bolt, yes special head bolt washers are made for this, but sleldom used.

 

[BogusSVO]

How much does a resurface job like that normally cost?

Getting the head surface is $40.00, But if the intake valves have to be R&R, beacuse they protrude be low the head deck surface add $20.00, the +1mm most always do.

Some shops will not remove the valves, and they will just "tink" the edge of the valve.
this thins the edge or margin ov the valve and can create a hot spot wich can lead to pre-det.
The prices I gave are for in my area, in other parts of the country prices may differ.

 

[BogusSVO]

a hand held paint and body hard back long board with 80-100 grit sand paper is what I recomend. then a light coat of permatex copper coat on the block should do the job.QUOTE]

will this work even if youre using the mls gasket? the sand paper and copper spray?

this is the method I recomend IF the block has not been decked and your doing a HG swap in car.
I Recomend this way of cleaning the block for ANY head gasket!!
I do not like "Rol-Loc" for cleaning of head gasket surfaces, I have had to deck blocks beacuse of them, if not used properly, they will "wave" the block block surface.

your are NOT trying to sand the block shiney, but just clean the surface.
also proper cleaning of the cylinder bores of all grit is needed BEFORE applying the copper coat.

Delta.... Killa... I am glad you learn a little from my posts.
When I dropped off my first engine off to be machined, I wondered what all they did and how it was done. So I figured some people may ask the same questions I did. So I am just trying to inform people of the work done.

 

[PapioGXL]

Pretty cool to see how its actually done. Thanks.

 

[90rslaser]

sooo. if i shipped you my head, how much would you charge for a full clean, pressure check, resurface, and 3 angle valve job. and also get it ready for 1mm over sized ss valves? i have the parts, just need the work done

 

[GooeyGus]

sooo. if i shipped you my head, how much would you charge for a full clean, pressure check, resurface, and 3 angle valve job. and also get it ready for 1mm over sized ss valves? i have the parts, just need the work done

I was wondering the same thing!!! I also have a head that needs to be cleaned/decked/assembled

EDIT: Forgot that I was searching through old posts... didn't mean to resurrect a dead thread

 

[BogusSVO]

Here is another good vid on surfacing a head properly!

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cyl...y-you-need-resurface-your-cylinder-heads.html

 

[ViciousLord]

do you provide any machine services to fellow DSMers?

 

[Clinical]

So I'm doing a headgasket job currently on my car. It had an OEM gasket and I blew it, however it never overheated as I religiously watched it since it had been pushing coolant for months. I just didnt drive it a whole lot.

My head has been resurfaced however my block has not and I don't intend to.
I've cleaned it thoroughly it feels perfect, I dont have tools to check it. It looks as if it has been through a surface. Is there anything else I could do to assist my MLS in sealing? I've heard of using copper spray but I've never used it before.

If it doesnt seal I'll just throw on one of those Titan MLS gaskets that map performance used.

 

[BogusSVO]

Clincial... it depends on how the block deck was cleaned.. if a rol-loc was used then it should be checked by a pro with a good strightedge...

as far as copper spray.. well big debate on that.. I have installed HG with it and with out it.. with the same results.

 

[mazda-man]

I've used roloc discs for years on multiple cars and applications. Even on same engines like v-twin lawn mower engines and have never had a head gasket failure. I think the problem is people dont use them correctly and dont use the correct roloc for the job. I've seen guys using the brown discs on aluminum which it is not recommended for as it will sand away the metal. I only take off the gasket material and dont polish the surface unless I am trying to polish something My last build I used the oem metal headgasket from mitsu with stock head bolts running 20psi on a big t28 and never had any problems. I ran that setup for years before I sold the car.

 

[BogusSVO]

mazda man.. you then are un a very rare minority then.... I have seen blocks of all kinds that had to be decked from the use of a rol-loc.. cast iron and alum blocks

yes the rol -loc dose have its place and use, I use them... But as a blanket rule, I advise people NOT to use them on the block or head hasket surfaces.

 

[ViciousLord]

do you provide any machine services to fellow DSMers?

waiting for a reply...

 

[mazda-man]

Now I do scuff the head and block with usually a 100 grit sandpaper after I'm done cleaning the old gasket material off. I used the roloc discs as did the other 10 techs that worked at the dealership I worked for. Not saying that cant do damage I just think anybody can mess something up even using the correct materials. Some people think that because they go to sears and get some tools and a hammer and now they are a experienced tech. Not bashing anybody but I see everyday stuff customers have tried to take apart and fix themselves and usually it only costs them more in the end because I have to fix what they messed up.

 

[Clinical]

I hand cleaned mine with your everday razor blade and some brake clean. Sucker looks as good as my freshly surfaced head