how many people are running N/A 6 bolts for their engine builds?

[dnhieu]

i was just curious on how many people are using N/A 4g63 to build their engines? i have a junk yard willing to sell me the whole motor for 250 bucks and i want to use the block and the head. is their anything diffrent besides the oil squiters in the block and the cams in the head? can i reuse the crank in the N/A motor to connect my Eagle rods to?


thanks tuners

 

[gsxtacy]

I was researching this the other day and found out:

NA 6 bolt engines share everything except that they have cast 9:1 pistons, and they have no oil squirters., and no oil drain hole in the oil pan.

They have the same crank and rods as a 6 bolt 4g63T though, so after a set of pistons, and a BS removal, and bolting on your OEM oil pan, your looking at a pretty stout 4g63T bottom end. I do recommend ARP hardware anytime you are going to be at the rods/mains/head, its good insurance.

NA 6 bolts are getting as hard to find as 6 bolt turbo engines.

Best of luck on the upcoming build.

gsxtacy

 

[dnhieu]

what! they are getting hard to find hahaha well im gonna have to start charging big $$$ to you 2g guys for rebuildable bottom ends. what i was really curious about was how many people were running them in their fully built race engines.

 

[gSx_r1der]

Its funny that you ask this cause I just found a 1g nt engine at a junkyard and was wondering about using the nt head and just swapping out all the goodies on top. And as far as I have read they are the same except what ^^^^^^^^he said and the head just has different cams. By the way I just picked up a g464 shortblock from the junkyard only 80 bones.

 

[kristmen]

Quoted from Kyle Zingg:

Converting a non-turbo (NT) block for use as a turbo motor is pretty
easy for the 1G cars. I'm doing this with an early big-rod 6-bolt motor,
but it will work equally well on the later small-rod 7-bolt motors. As
we all know, this doesn't work for the 2G cars since the NT uses a
Chrysler motor and the turbos use a Mitsu.

Anyway, all you need to do is the following:

a) Bore & tap holes for the turbo oil jets. The NTs already have the jet
locating pin machined out. The provided pads need machined flat so that
the jet gasket will seal. Bore and tap the oil jet holes until the side
of your hole has *completely* intersected the main oil galley feed. This
should be about 21mm deep.

b) Change pistons if you don't want 9:1 compression. Your options are
stock 7.8:1s which are a direct bolt in, or you can go with 8.5:1 95
turbo pistons. The big rods require machining to fit while the small-rod
motors will be a direct bolt in.

c) Swap in a turbo oil pan for the turbo oil return line.

That's it! Install oil jets and the pistons of your choice, put it all
back together and you have a turbo block.

Couple of other Q's you may have:

Q: Hey, where does the knock sensor go? There is no boss in the stock
location.
A: Use the boss at the top of cyl #3. Datalogging has shown that there
is no appreciable difference in knock readings between the two bosses.

Q: Won't the NT crank and rods need upgraded to take the abuse?
A: Nope. The NT and T use the same rods and crank. The factory part#s
are the same.

Q: Any other block differences?
A: Nope. The accessories are different, but the short block is the same
NT or T except for what I've noted.

 

[dnhieu]

a) Bore & tap holes for the turbo oil jets. The NTs already have the jet
locating pin machined out. The provided pads need machined flat so that
the jet gasket will seal. Bore and tap the oil jet holes until the side
of your hole has *completely* intersected the main oil galley feed. This
should be about 21mm deep.


when you say turbo oil jets are you talking about oil squiters?

thanks

 

[kristmen]

a) Bore & tap holes for the turbo oil jets. The NTs already have the jet
locating pin machined out. The provided pads need machined flat so that
the jet gasket will seal. Bore and tap the oil jet holes until the side
of your hole has *completely* intersected the main oil galley feed. This
should be about 21mm deep.


when you say turbo oil jets are you talking about oil squiters?

thanks

You are correct sir

 

[Synapses]

Quoted from Kyle Zingg:

Converting a non-turbo (NT) block for use as a turbo motor is pretty
easy for the 1G cars. I'm doing this with an early big-rod 6-bolt motor,
but it will work equally well on the later small-rod 7-bolt motors. As
we all know, this doesn't work for the 2G cars since the NT uses a
Chrysler motor and the turbos use a Mitsu.

Anyway, all you need to do is the following:

a) Bore & tap holes for the turbo oil jets. The NTs already have the jet
locating pin machined out. The provided pads need machined flat so that
the jet gasket will seal. Bore and tap the oil jet holes until the side
of your hole has *completely* intersected the main oil galley feed. This
should be about 21mm deep.

b) Change pistons if you don't want 9:1 compression. Your options are
stock 7.8:1s which are a direct bolt in, or you can go with 8.5:1 95
turbo pistons. The big rods require machining to fit while the small-rod
motors will be a direct bolt in.

c) Swap in a turbo oil pan for the turbo oil return line.

That's it! Install oil jets and the pistons of your choice, put it all
back together and you have a turbo block.

Couple of other Q's you may have:

Q: Hey, where does the knock sensor go? There is no boss in the stock
location.
A: Use the boss at the top of cyl #3. Datalogging has shown that there
is no appreciable difference in knock readings between the two bosses.

Q: Won't the NT crank and rods need upgraded to take the abuse?
A: Nope. The NT and T use the same rods and crank. The factory part#s
are the same.

Q: Any other block differences?
A: Nope. The accessories are different, but the short block is the same
NT or T except for what I've noted.

Wow, Thanks....I got some sweet info right there.

 

[Cracker Red]

I'm headed down this road this week actually, as I can't locate a turbo block for a reasonable price (all are 750 +). Still trying to find a machinist to machine the pads flat for the squirters. I was planning on just drilling them out myself, but if the pads need to be flatened, I'll need a mill, which I don't have.

 

[gsx951]

N/A block built into a 2.3. NO SQUIRTERS and don't want them.
Is it built? Check the mod list.
Seems to be fine.

 

[gsx951]

I'm headed down this road this week actually, as I can't locate a turbo block for a reasonable price (all are 750 +). Still trying to find a machinist to machine the pads flat for the squirters. I was planning on just drilling them out myself, but if the pads need to be flatened, I'll need a mill, which I don't have.

Spend your money on forged pistons and forget about the squirters.

 

[darkness_fallz]

oil squirters at higher RPM's can cause oil pressure fluctuations that can result in higher wear on some of the rotating surfaces....

I prefer the NA 6 bolt to the T 6 bolt on my builds and rebuilds

 

[Cracker Red]

Spend your money on forged pistons and forget about the squirters.

Lol... if I had $400 for forged pistons I would no doubt. My HP goals are 450whp, and I'm skeptical of forged pistons lasting as long as the cast due to the required clearance/expansion. If I could find a set of forged for cheap, I'd def do that.

$150 for 2G ITM pistons w/rings + $50 for the squirters = $200 cheaper for the budget rebuild.
1G big rods w/arp's + 2G pistons = I thought good enough for ~525awhp.

 

[Cracker Red]

Question though.... If I DO end up getting forged slugs, won't I have to have the 1G big rods bushed, or are some of the forged pistons press-on?

 

[dnhieu]

damn im so excited just got a call back from the junk yard. they said my N/A motor is ready for me to pick up tomorrow. i cant wait to get this thing to the machine shop to put the ross pistons and eagle rods in.

also is their any diffrence in putting the rods and pistons in when their is no oil squiters?

thanks tuners

 

[Cracker Red]

F it. I'm getting Mahle forged pistons. Graphite coated skirts, ceramic coated tops, w/rings for $350. I can't beat that, and since I was going to bore it anyway....

Now $350 for the pistons, minus the 100 for the rod mod, minus the 100 for the machine for squirters = 150 more....

I think the forged slugs are worth it. They are low expansion pistons, requiring the same amount of wall clearance .0035 I think as the cast slugs...about half what the other forged pieces use...so that should limit pistons slap and wear to some extent...

$350 for pistons
$250 for bore/hone, micropolish and check crank, and vac test head/clean
$300 misc parts (front case, oil pump, tensioner, etc.)

$900 - 6 bolt motor with 1G rods/arps, forged slugs, total rebuild isn't to bad I suppose. Now I need the FP2's and I'll be set

 

[dnhieu]

F it. I'm getting Mahle forged pistons. Graphite coated skirts, ceramic coated tops, w/rings for $350. I can't beat that, and since I was going to bore it anyway....

Now $350 for the pistons, minus the 100 for the rod mod, minus the 100 for the machine for squirters = 150 more....

I think the forged slugs are worth it. They are low expansion pistons, requiring the same amount of wall clearance .0035 I think as the cast slugs...about half what the other forged pieces use...so that should limit pistons slap and wear to some extent...

$350 for pistons
$250 for bore/hone, micropolish and check crank, and vac test head/clean
$300 misc parts (front case, oil pump, tensioner, etc.)

$900 - 6 bolt motor with 1G rods/arps, forged slugs, total rebuild isn't to bad I suppose. Now I need the FP2's and I'll be set

hey i have some pf2's im lookin to sell. pm me and we can work out a deal

thanks
david

 

[Cracker Red]

PM sent to you.

My block is good So the machine work begins....

 

[Batty200]

PM sent to you.

Apparently I need a different block now. It seems I've pulled a 1990 4g63, which doesn't have a main mounting point for the transmission on it. Back to the yard I go the weekend I guess, there is one 91 still there. Bleh, I hate the u-pull it during hot rainly FL months....

I dont beleive there is any difference between 90 and 91 4g63 blocks.



Later

 

[dnhieu]

i just got my motor from the junk yard today. looks alright some of the stuff i wanted are not their so ill have to go back tomorrow go grab them. after i get it disassembled tonight i will get it to the local machine shop and get it blue printed, bored .20 over, have the crank rebalanced. and have it o ringed.

 

[dnhieu]

damn, i cant beieve that its been 2 months since i started my motor rebuild project and still dont have the damn thing back from the shop but its almost done . anyways i had a quick question. im very confused on where i can locate the knock snesor? their is a bunge on the top of the #3 cylinder but im not sure if this is the right one because below it their is another bunge that could be used for a knock sensor also.

thanks in advance tuners
david

 

[kristmen]

Missed this update

I don't think it matters what bung you use at long as its free and not used by anything else. As long at the sensor is near the stop of the block its going to pick up knock.

 

[biglady112]

I picked up my long block for $50. I didn't even bother with the oil squirters as I remove them always anyway. There is a boss in between the #2 and #3 cylinder on the back that you can bolt the knock sensor into. We also run one in our race car. I will post more results of that car in teh spring time as we are shooting for 800+hp. Not until the current 7 bolt(630awhp) lets go will we pull it out.

If you have any questions feel free to ask.

Steven

 

[dnhieu]

thanks for all the help. wish you guys were their when i found out that i shouldnt use a turned crank! now im left having to pay for my motor to get rebalanced and new rod and main bearings to come in. oOo well i guess you live and you learn. looks like ill be waiting awhile for my car to be done because i want to buy a CLEAN 92-94 and just flat out do things the right way. the main mods will be a 20g,huge fmic, and finally getting around to purchase my 3" exhaust.

thanks again
david

 

[sho_tyme_psi]

What is wrong with a turned crank? As long as it is to spec. I dont see what it would hurt.
I have ran many with no probs.