horrible problem after timing belt change

[rough]

What a real mechanic shop Mosers is!

No timing belt tool to set the preload on tensioner = fail! I bet they used the pliers to pull the grenade pin out thou!

I've never used pliers on a tensioner.. On my old 420a I used a bench vice to compress it enough to get the grenade pin in. I wouldn't do that on my 4g63 since it's not correct way of doing it!

It sounds like you skipped a tooth 5 miles after you left, and it kept skipping teeth till the point where the valves decided to kiss your pistons!

usually 1 or 2 teeth will make your car run rough, you have exceeded that

Questions..

Did Mosers log your miles when you had the labor done on it?

How many miles have you put on it since the timing job was done?

How long has it been since the work has been done?

Do you still have your receipt "I hope you do" ?

 

[lasthope05]

First off, not having the correct tools to do the job does not indicate that they are incompetent. Honestly, you dont need any specialty tools to a timing belt job on a dsm and you can use wide jaw pliers to compress the tensioner in car, before removal, to put the grenade pin in.

Shit happens. Since dsm's are so finicky with timing components, if they dont have experience with them timing is pretty easy to jump. Like I said, find someone in your area that knows these cars. Its obvious you dont know enough or have enough hands on experience from your own words. Do it fast before you destroy the car.

 

[SrKegler]

Cut Wolf some slack. Initially he knew he was in over his head doing the timing components and took it to a shop. Granted you don't need all the special tools to change a TB, BUT we've done them so many times we know what works. At least he was trying to do proper maintenance on the vehicle, just took it to the wrong shop.

Any halfway decent mechanic can follow the instructions and properly change a TB. Seems like these guys didn't have a clue on what they were doing, probably didn't put any tension on the belt which caused it to skip teeth.

Hopefully we can talk him thru the process of getting his car back on the road. Might take a while, he isn't familiar with our terminology but by asking questions I'm pretty sure we can help him out.

 

[wolf alchemy]

Every ones right. I f*** up every thing. Car acted up 5 miles from mosers so I rotated the engine to line up the cam gears. They were lined up. Started it and it ran fine. So I assumed it was fuel of spark/injector related and didn't go back to mosers. I've f***ed up my highschool life so I am now a drop out. I f***ed up at my job by calling off to much.(actually getting fired because doctor wouldn't fill out LOA paper work correctly, which put me 10 call offs over the limit). But yeah. Probably even f***ing up my relationship.

 

[wolf alchemy]

And I doubt they did log miles. Maybe they did. It was done back in November and yes I have the receipt.....somewhere.

 

[wolf alchemy]

Not having a good day......at all.....

 

[wolf alchemy]

Not sure when this happened, but need new mount....

 

[pauleyman]

The car is 25 years old
That's what happened.

 

[wolf alchemy]

My 1987 old's never had a mount split. But that's beside the point. This is

 

[pauleyman]

Line up the crank. Show us the cam position

 

[wolf alchemy]

Forgot cams. Spot on as well as the harmonic balancer.

 

[lasthope05]

You still dont have it correctly at tdc. Dowel pins in the head must be at 12oclock. Also oil pump pulley on the right doesnt matter because you dont have a balance shaft belt.

 

[wolf alchemy]

So you want me to put the crank in time and the others don't matter?

 

[wolf alchemy]

There yah go. the timing cover should be lined with rubber to seal it correctly?

 

[lasthope05]

You're currently not even anywhere close to being in time. These are 4 stroke engines, meaning tdc on cyl 1 can either be in the compression stroke or exhaust stroke. You need to rotate the engine multiple times until you can get the marks to line up after you find tdc on the compression stroke. It can takes up to 6 rotations.

You should go check out some youtube videos because obviously what we are telling you isnt helping.

 

[wolf alchemy]

Correct. Meant correct

 

[wolf alchemy]

Line up the crank. Show us the cam position

I did then lasthope said I had to find the compression stroke...but that shouldn't matter unless I was going to set the timing myself because then I would have to make sure that the exhaust stroke is with the exhaust valves opening. But maybe my theory is wrong and I'm over thinking from what lasthope said. And I'm looking at the video in page 4 if that's ok with every one.

 

[lasthope05]

Im sorry, I dont know how much more I'll be able to help you. I've dumbed it down to the best of my abilities but it seems like we're all just repeating ourselves and you still dont know what to do or how to do it. Just forget everything you know, because quite honestly now, I truely dont think you understand anything about timing.

The only thin left to say is just keep spinning the motor untill all the marks like up, or close to it, with the cam dowels facing up.

Thats it. Im done.

 

[lasershark]

The video will help you get a good visual, what lasthope was trying to say, is that the timing marks won't line up everytime the crank hits its timing mark. All the marks only line up once for every 6 crank rotations. Take a break man, go for a walk pet a dog or something. If your stressing out and getting too frustrated just take a break.

 

[wolf alchemy]

The video will help you get a good visual, what lasthope was trying to say, is that the timing marks won't line up everytime the crank hits its timing mark. All the marks only line up once for every 6 crank rotations. Take a break man, go for a walk pet a dog or something. If your stressing out and getting too frustrated just take a break.

I'm not stressed like I was. But saying they line up every 6 rotations helps tremendously. Watching the video helped as well. Going to go do that now and the Moser employee doesn't seem to know to rotate the engine 6 times.

 

[wolf alchemy]

Well. I rotated it a lot. Didn't get anything other than crank lined up. Having someone watch cam gears

 

[lasershark]

Keep in mind they will obviously only line up when the timing is correct. Keep an eye on the dowel pins they both need to be in the 12 oclock position, when checking the marks.

 

[pauleyman]

It doesnt matter, its already obvious timing skipped. A lot. I doubt you can save it. You can try to retime it as its free to do so and ghen do another comp and leakdown. My guess is youve already bent valves and at a minimum head needs to be rebuilt. That's it. Those are your options.

 

[pauleyman]

Btw this simple test it really doesnt matter dowels up or down. But since everybody is going to wonder anyway just look at it. Cams turn half the crank. Rear and front balance shafts turn multiples of crank speed. If all five marks line up, dowels up....only after six full turns of the crank will all five line up again. The observant person will notice the marks line up at three rotations also but dowels down. for the purposes of relative time we can already see yours is jacked. I would guess that if you line cams up youll notice they are probably fine relative to each other but crank is five or six teeth off. Doesnt matter how you look at it as long as you understand cams and crank relative to each other.

 

[wolf alchemy]

Rotated crank 12 times(nearly chopped off finger tip). And the cams rotated 6. Still no body has told me which one I should give more attention. Do I want to have the cams correct with dowel pins at 12. Or have the crank at the correct position.