Home/Garage fully-built engine builders. Who else does it?

[laserspeeddemon]

I am doing a full build in my own garage. Hoping for 600 AWHP, but would be happy with anything over 500 AWHP. And I was wondering who else has done their own build. I'm not talking about the people who stuff rags at the bottom of their engine and then honed out the engine with a Harbor Frieght Cylinder Hone and threw in some NPR slugs. I am talking about people who have done proper machining. Verified proper piston ring gap, bearing clearance, assembly with high quality parts like Manley, Weisco, Ross, Crower and the like.

I know there are a few around here. So who else is has done their own engine build? Share some of your stories and what you learned doing it.

I'd really like this to be a central thread on how to do your own engine building. Tips, what to look out for, what to avoid, etc.

 

[Palmetto_TSi]

I am in the middle of this right now. Waiting on my new bolts. Didn't want to chance a broken bolt in the bottom end like a lot of guys do. Already verified the ring gap, and bore square. The machine work was done on this block when I bought it, so I treated it as a used block and did all the measurements I would normally do. I'm having my head worked at a machine shop, and they have to resize my 1g rods for my 2g pistons, but other than that, it is all being done at home.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

Heres my contribution.

First thing I recommend if you are going to do your own engine build is get this DVD Box Wrench. It's a very good DVD that goes through ever part of the engine build from jacking the car and securely mounting it, to the engine removal, disassembly and tear down, cleaning and machining, reassembly, installation and initial startup. It's a 3 hour DVD and covers pretty much everything you need to know.

Second, whenever possible put the bolts/nuts/screws back where they came from. You are NOT going to remember where every bolt came from. In the end you will have about 50 bolts left over. So put them back, if you can. Perfect example. I removed the transmission mount from the fire wall. I took the four bolts that held it in place and screwed them back into the mount. I also put the long mount bolt and put that back through the mount. With that said there is going to be A LOT of bolts/nuts/screws that you CAN NOT put back. So pick up one of these or something like it.

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When you can not put something back. Write down what part it attached to or where it came from or some other signifying note on piece of paper and put it in the bin with the screws. DO NOT put several different bolts/nuts from different parts into the same bin. You'll probably just forget what they came from and mix them up. It's best to buy a bigger or more bin separator then to to mix bolts. If you must put them in same bin. Separate them with a plastic bag. Or wrap them tightly in aluminum foil.

Third. This will save your life. Label Printer Hard Carry Case Brady Inc Id/Pal With this label
BMP21 Mobile Printer, ID PAL & LABPAL Label Printer Labels - M21-500-499-TB - BRADY
It will allow you to label every connector in the engine bay. I use this at work and I can tell where 1000's upon 1000's of internet, telephone, power, fiber, etc. cables go. It works well with heat and even on non-sticky surfaces. It's not expensive, but if you can't figure out what connector goes where and a shop has to do it for you. You will spend far more than this paying shop fees. Plus you can sell it again or use it for pretty much any cable

Fourth, A picture is your best friend, so if you are patient enough take LOTS and LOTS of pictures.

5th the machine shop has so much power over your build. They can be the success or the failure of your build. So do your research. Get AT LEAST 3 different DSMers opinion on that shop. My machinist screwed me and now I have to take him to court. The machine work should have cost me around $700. He charged me nearly $1000 and all the work had to be re-done. On top of that, I had to pay so far another $400 so far having to fix the damage he's done. So just in machine work my budget jumped another $2000. Just look around the shop. I wish I could show you how dirty the machine shop was. I can not find a machine shop that is NEAR as dirty as this one was. I should have walked away, but I wanted my engine done. And about 3-4 DSMers recommended Shop A and Shop A was full and pointed me to shop B. So I figured his word was just as good. WRONG!

Here is the machine shop that has my engine now.

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Last bit I have for now. Where you take your engine apart at can be a dirty as you want it to be. Where you put it back together. Needs to be CLEAN! CLEAN! CLEAN! We are using latex gloves during the assembly process.

 

[talonDSMerr]

Let's see some pictures of your garage engine build!!

I'm on the same page you are, but my goals are a bit more modest. Just looking for a reliable 450awhp out of a 2.3L. I dropped off my bare block, head, and rotating assembly at a machine shop just last Saturday because I don't have a mill handy in my own garage. Other than having the head cleaned and decked with a 3 angle valve job, the block bored, honed, and decked, and the rotating assembly balanced, I plan to do the rest on my own inside my garage. I only have time to work on it on weekends, but I'll be taking pictures of my progress. While the block and head are at the machine shop, I've just been cleaning the parts and bolts that, over 19 years, have become caked with oil residue and carbon. I'm surprised how silver some parts are, like the water pipe and oil filter bracket. It's tedious but I know it'll be worth it.

I also just finished helping a friend rebuild a Honda B20A5, all done in his garage with the exception of professional machine work on the block and head. One thing I learned from that is to CLEAN your workspace and organize your tools before you start putting the motor together. It makes things go much smoother. Always use a torque wrench and clean threads as well as possible; every fastener has a torque spec and the last thing you want is broken bolts or stripped threads. Also, something I didn't know was that when filing rings, the top ring is much harder than the second ring. Keep this in mind and be very careful so you don't over-gap the second ring! Be careful when taking the rings out of the bore too, because they're brittle and you don't want to have to order a new set any time soon. Check the bearing surfaces for any abnormal scratches, EVEN on new bearings. My friend noticed a decent scratch in 2 of the bearings he bought new. Although most are, don't assume they're fine and dandy until you've seen it with your own eyes and felt it with your own fingernails!

I'll be keeping up with this thread to see what advice others have to offer, this is a great topic! Hope to see pictures as well!

 

[laserspeeddemon]

Due to the security reasons. I have elected to keep pictures off the web until after I am done with the build.

 

[talonDSMerr]

That's fair. I hope everything goes over well. I'll see what related pictures I may have so far and post them up.

Another tip, unexpected costs always seem to pop up during engine rebuilds, so try to account for them by saving up a little bit more beforehand.

 

[Palmetto_TSi]

+1 on the latex gloves. Luckily I can get all I want at work. I recommend a trash bag be put over your engine while it is not being worked on. Keeps dust out of all the places it shouldn't be.

I have taken pix of every step of my build and will be adding to my blog when I get done.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

That's fair. I hope everything goes over well. I'll see what related pictures I may have so far and post them up.

Another tip, unexpected costs always seem to pop up during engine rebuilds, so try to account for them by saving up a little bit more beforehand.

Here's another tip. I learned this from the Honda World. Don't brag about what you're ABOUT to put into the car. It's too easy for someone to break into your garage or house for only 1 minute to grab that $1000 turbo or FMIC kit from the shelf/counter/floor.

 

[donniekak]

Clean, be very, very clean. Brake cleaner is your best friend in the world.

 

[phunny]

Sounds awesome man, I've never taken on the machine work so this should be interesting .

Nothing like a good build thread man, I remember one of my favorites was blackspoolin http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cyl...6707-project-rely-ability-6-bolt-rebuild.html

 

[ilikerice]

I am in the process right now of rebuilding a 7bolt. This is my first ever DSM. With that said, I dont have the luxury to already have a working let alone assembled gsx. So I am taking my time and gathering information as I get to that particular part. I havent gotten very far. Still working on the front of the block where everything goes. Check out my build journal if you like.

I got my block and head done at a machine shop but I double checked all the measurements when i got it on the stand. In your OP it sounded like you were asking people who actually did machine work at a professional level:

I am talking about people who have done proper machining. Verified proper piston ring gap, bearing clearance, assembly with high quality parts like Manley, Weisco, Ross, Crower and the like.

Most of my goals are just get it running smooth like it was new. I dont have a HP goal. I'm using all stock oem parts with occational upgrade here or there (16g, fmic, BSE kit).

I feel I am good and got the know how to do rebuilds the right way, but I am no professional. This is just a hobby I do on my spare time.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

I don't want to reference various journals or threads, I'm just trying to get all information in one spot. Phunny, when I was looking into information about building a motor, I wish I had known about that thread.

 

[phunny]

I don't want to reference various journals or threads, I'm just trying to get all information in one spot. Phunny, when I was looking into information about building a motor, I wish I had known about that thread.

Yeah it's a good read, but I'm sure yours will be awesome as well. Can't wait

 

[delta448]

This is a re-post, but as far as engine build threads go, it's hard to beat:
My 2.3L build, lots o pics - evolutionm.net

 

[stevecbr929]

I just finished rebuilding my 2g 7 bolt. Unemployment forced a cap in my wish list shopping, but overall, I'm happy & surprised with how good things turned out.

First thing I would suggest is to keep things CLEAN/STERILE. That picture of your machine shop is what I'm talking about. Freaks. Gotta love that stuff - they know what they're doing.

I either wrapped things I didn't want open in clear plastic wrap or used trashbags & duct tape and just got creative.

Latex gloves are really good but I found some - I think they're called Talons (funny). They're black neoprene & thick, hard to tear. Guy at local parts store told me about them after seeing me way too often buying those cheap blue ones they sell.

As far as nuts & bolts go, I had my best luck putting them back where I got them from but I sure wouldn't mind having one of those drawer setups you bought - nice.

This website has gotten me through every single issue I've ever had with my car including my rebuild (total teardown), and installing a new clutch. Everything here in my garage (head taken to machine shop referred by DSM Thunder, local DSM know everything guy). Wouldn't be driving if it weren't for all the help I got here.

Good luck man - it looks like things are going to turn out sweet for you and your ride.

 

[herms99gst]

Im also almost 2 years into a build myself and most of the work has been done by myself besides the machine work and head assembly. I believe all of my mods are in my profile. I took on the bottomend myself from gapping my own rings to plastiguaging my bearing clearances. I fully plan on doing all the work myself that is within my ability. And I didnt skimp on my parts, so if i blow it up imma habv a pissed wife and a lot of money gone . Fyi, its not cheap doing this yourself. I have roughly 1400 in my bottom end and that does not include the tools i needed to do this. And i had to pay 200 for a block. This does include my front case, oem timing assembly, and bs delete. My head roughly 600 and i have to have the deck re-finished. And Theirs ALOT more to go. The car cost me 1800.....so 3800 dollars so far and the cars not even close to running...if i could give you any tips tho i would say weal and deal ...The parts you dont need sell them. It really does help a lot....good luck with the build

 

[1990AWD]

This is my bit of info: never touch the inside of a rod or main bearing (as in the surface the rod or crank runs on) with dry fingers. The grease and dirt from your fingers/gloves can be harmful. Simply coat with some assembly grease and engine oil when installing.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

Good input everyone, keep the tips coming. I'm sure some noob in the future will love this thread. I will be documenting everything I can. I hope to get my camera fixed so I can walk through the process of pre-assembly and assembly.

 

[Mr Peepers]

What's wrong with NPR slugs???

Cleanliness and lots of research. If it's your first time, it is invaluable to have someone with experience to be next to you through a build.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

Oddly enough, there is only one person with more experience with DSMs than me and I don't think he'd be willing to help me out.

 

[Mr Peepers]

Not referring to you in particular.

Engine Builder - Serving Professional Engine Builders and Rebuilders with information on rebuilt engines, engine parts and performance engines

That site is an information gold mine. Specifically the tech center and archived issues.

 

[WickedQuikAWD]

In my limited experience, these are a few tips that I found to be crucial in a quality build that will last. I am sure I will forget a few (thousand) things so please fill in where I am lacking.

Mic everything at room temperature (70-75f) including the micrometer itself. Even hot water on an aluminum piston can change measurements by .004" or more. Make sure you have a quality micrometer as proper clearances are important. Keep in mind that forged components expand at different rates than stock parts so wider clearances may be required. For example .035" might be sufficient piston to cylinder wall clearance with stock pistons but performance forged aluminum pistons require .050 (to prevent scuffing) due to the higher expansion rate and higher cylinder temperatures and pressures that come along with higher specific output. On that note, make sure that your machine shop has experience with 4g63s and similar engines with extremely high specific output. The cylinder pressures and temps seen in a 350whp 2 liter (122ci) 4g63 are significantly higher than in a 350bhp 5.7 liter (~350ci) v8 and the clearances need to be adjusted accordingly.

AVOID CRANK WALK!!!
6 bolts crank walk too, if you don't believe me...PM me and I will send you pictures of a thrust bearing and knife edged crank that is completely destroyed. (in the process shredding to pieces, the thrust bearing took out the turbo, pistons, crank, timing belt, oil pump, etc) Oh, and if you see strange chunks missing out of your timing belt, there is a good chance you have crank walk in a bad way.

I believe that the crank is the most commonly overlooked component in a high performance forged internal build. Most people reuse a stock crank that may be several thousandths out of spec. To my knowledge, there are only STD and .010 over sized bearings available (unlike the factory that had every bearing size imaginable to ensure tight tolerances that engine longevity requires) and in my opinion... turning a crank is not the best idea. If your crank is out of spec and you are doing a high $$$$ build, it would be a good idea to buy a new factory crank or a forged aftermarket unit. If you do reuse your crank be sure to mic the thrust surfaces on the crank to ensure they are not out of spec or worn unevenly (on the block too) especially if you had crank-walk issues previously. There is a specific procedure to installing the main bearings, thrust bearing, and crank. This is the procedure I follow when torquing the crank into place to ensure proper thrust bearing alignment.

When assembling thrust bearings:

Tighten main cap bolts to approximately 10 to 15 ft.lb. to seat bearings, then loosen.

Tap main cap toward rear of engine with a soft faced hammer.

Tighten main cap bolts, finger tight.

Using a bar, force the crankshaft as far forward (from the flywheel side toward the crank pulley side, just as if the clutch was depressed) in the block as possible to align the bearing rear thrust faces.

While holding the crankshaft in forward position, tighten main cap bolts to 10 to 15 ft.lbs.

Complete tightening main cap bolts to spec in 3 equal steps.
(for example, just like torquing ARP head studs using ARP lube, first torque to 30, then 60, then 85 ft/lbs)



The above procedure should align the bearing thrust faces with the crankshaft to maximize the amount of bearing area in contact for load carrying.

Loading:

A number of factors may contribute to wear and overloading of a thrust bearing, such as:

1. Poor crankshaft surface finish.

2. Poor crankshaft surface geometry.

3. External overloading due to:

a) Low oil pressure at idle (possibly from oil squirters sticking open or premature oil pump failure due to unsupported BSE modification)

b) Improper throw out bearing adjustment.

c) Riding the clutch pedal while the engine is idling.

d) Excessive rearward crankshaft load pressure due to a malfunctioning front mounted accessory drive.

Be sure to replace your oil pump especially if you have been running an unsupported balance shaft eliminator kit. Definitely money well spent.

Be careful when mic'ing your parts as it is easy to scar or scratch journals, etc. If you are using spring loaded telescoping gauges be careful not to let the springs slam the contact pins against the soft metal of bearings or they may be damaged (be careful with cylinder walls also, but they are a bit tougher).

It would be a good idea to weigh each of your pistons (down to the tenth of a gram) and rods prior to taking them to the machine shop and matching them up to balance the weight of the reciprocating assembly as closely as possible. The machine shop can remove material from the pistons to ensure equal weight of each piston/rod combo if you would like. Any machine shop that does not require the engine internals that you intend to use is not your friend. Piston sizes are not always as exact as we would like to think, so each cylinder needs to be bored individually based on the size of the piston which they must measure on site and at room temp to ensure accuracy. When weighing your pistons/rods label each one 1-4 for with a sharpie marker for reference when assembling the engine. Make sure that you have the wrist pin and little end on the rod properly clearanced before assembly to prevent a piston from sticking. Sometimes the wrist pin fit is too tight. It would be prudent to have the mains align honed as an added protection against crank walk. Make sure the machine shop you choose uses a torque plate to bore and hone your cylinders after your block is decked. If they don't know what a torque plate is, go somewhere that does. Poor machine work can ruin even the best components, don't sell yourself short by getting second rate work done.

Use the best assembly lube money can buy, it is the only barrier between your new parts and the harsh environment of the first start up. There is virtually no way to use too much lube, except when applying to bolts or studs such as head studs... be sure not to get lube down in the threaded hole or on the tip of the bolt/stud as it can skew torque numbers significantly. As we all know, fluids can not be compressed and can easily prevent a bolt/stud from bottoming out and being torqued properly.

There are a thousand other things, but most of all... TAKE YOUR TIME! If you are overtired, frustrated, in a big hurry or distracted in any way, come back to your project later. Keep a list of which bolts have been torqued to spec and mark them with a sharpie or paint marker to indicate they are properly tightened to ensure you don't forget anything. Check, double check, triple check... don't take short cuts and you will thank yourself later. Make sure your knock sensor is in good working condition before you fire the engine too... you only have to make that mistake once before you know better.

Oh yeah, and any engine that is pumping out 75-100hp or more per cylinder is a race engine... treat it accordingly. Let it warm up to proper operating temperature before slamming the go pedal... those nice new forged internals have different thermal expansion rates than cast and require a longer warm up period to prevent premature wear/failure. Lastly, don't hesitate to call the part manufacturer and ask questions. They have a wealth of knowledge and any good customer service people will be happy to talk to you at length to provide the benefit of their experience and ensure you are more than satisfied with their product. These forums are an invaluable resource too, this community rocks.

 

[DSMReviver]

Always recheck machine shop's work...

 

[Hubbell91Tsi]

Build it right the first time . I rebuilt my first engine last year and i pretty much when all out on the shortblock... Groden Aluminum rods and Wiseco 9:1 pistons. I did everything my self... turned out great put 3300 miles on it and ended up joining the Navy and getting deployed so i parted out the car.

Taking pictures helps when you are putting the side cover back together, i found that to be the most confusing part but i havent worked on dsms that long so it was all new to me.

If i were to build another engine it would be another aluminum rod with higher compression.. hopefully you'll listen to that advise if you want a fast reving street monster .

 

[turboglenn]

greatr advicem adn the rechecking their work, well that depends on your machinist...even if you want to build your own with my guy he checks and sizes every single journal and numbers them wrist pins included, and i've never had an issue.. i use to double check his stuff, but it was redundant after so long.. All i do now is file my rings to the proper gap with my machininst... other than that he warrantees it if he checks, sizes and numbers them before you assemble. but teh above rules/steps are about what i call dead on

Also because i have a "machining/fabrication" shop with metal everywhere i don't assemble there i use saw horses and a slab of aluminum plate in a indoor room with rags down to assemble on (there's pics from my last 6bolt build some where i saw them pop up as recomendations when i posted my pics of my car in the hangout the other night)