Diference between home built vs. Shop built engine?

[JeanDSM]

Last night i was helping a friend building a honda engine. Ive rebuilt a few honda and 4g63engines before and everything is basically and generally the same, i lube everything and asemble everhing like it should and i was thinking, what is that these big shop names like AMS, Buschur, Magnus, Slowboy etc. do to engines that we cant do?, i mean i know these people has a lot of knowledge and experience on these engines but whats the diference between having an engine built by one of these companies and an engine built by a person with good knowledge (not me) on engine building doing it at home. What special things these shop does that the charge a lot of $$$ for engine building?

 

[tom04841]

Quality control, peace of mind, and warranty

 

[99gst_racer]

You're paying for piece of mind, knowing that it's done right (or at least should be).

I've seen "experienced shops" give less than par service on many occasions. Rule of thumb with machine work and engine work seems to be - stick with the places that specialize with your platform.


EDIT: Damn, He beat me... ^^^

 

[TSIfreek]

Your paying for and experianced person building your motor that does it everyday. These guys know the dos and donts and know what a motor needs to last and make good power.
Its more less quality control like said above were someone starts on a bare block and finishes with a short block assembly.
I would recomend having someone expereanced build the motor if you dont have the correct tools and expereace in building a motor. It goes along way when putting a lot of time and money into it. If you dont know dont do it. You may end up with a very expensive boat ancor.

 

[qtxdevilz]

Last night i was helping a friend building a honda engine. Ive rebuilt a few honda and 4g63engines before and everything is basically and generally the same, i lube everything and asemble everhing like it should and i was thinking, what is that these big shop names like AMS, Buschur, Magnus, Slowboy etc. do to engines that we cant do?, i mean i know these people has a lot of knowledge and experience on these engines but whats the diference between having an engine built by one of these companies and an engine built by a person with good knowledge (not me) on engine building doing it at home. What special things these shop does that the charge a lot of $$$ for engine building?

thing like
boring
honing
micing (assuming you do not have a mic)
weight balancing/matching
rod stretch measuring
and the expericen from them doing it over 50 million times (but then again how do you know that sbr did not just hire a noob and he messed something up)

with that being said...i have had built motors #### up on me that was purchased from a shop...

and i am currently on a home built motor that me and my mechanic/buddy built from the start...we made sure we triple checked everything and i even borrowed a certified jewlery/gold scale to weight match everything...

 

[qtxdevilz]

as far as a stock rebuilt (throwing stock sized pistons into a stock sized cylinder/throwing some bearings in with some plastigauge) it should be no problem...a built motor on the other hand...i would have a shop do it or have someone very smart helping you along the way...

 

[topnotchgsx]

I will take the other side and just say that it isnt hard building your own motor. Practically every part that you will buy will have exact instructions on how to install them and make sure they are installed correctly. I have built all of my motors and so far so good. Knocking on wood right now.

Of course, unless you have a machine shop in your backyard, you will have to take it somewhere to get it the block bored or honed, and the head work done if you decide to do that. But where I go, it is only like $10 a cylinder to bore. So its not that expensive.

If you want to build your own, just make sure you get a good list of parts that you will need (i.e. new rings, rod and main bearings, complete motor gasket set including head gasket, new oil pump, new water pump, new timing belt, engine lube, for bearing and stuff, rtv silicone, might as well go ARP bolts on everything, etc.)

Keylan

 

[Caithness]

I don't see why you should be afraid of an engine rebuild if you're a competent DIY mechanic. I'm going to assemble my engine when I do a rebuild. Overall it's just a matter of taking your time, measuring everything repeatedly, being clean and just plain being careful. Honestly, an engine rebuild scares me less than a tranny rebuild. I've taken both apart and the tranny looks a lot harder to put back together in good working order.

 

[EuroGSTSpyder]

I would rather do it mysefl actually. That way I know exactly what is done to the engine and I know it inside out and can fix it if something goes wrong. Sure shops have "warrantys" and all but you know how hard it is to make them live up to it if its a costly procedure to fix whats broken.
I will def build on my own.

 

[1gcrazy]

I would rather do it mysefl actually. That way I know exactly what is done to the engine and I know it inside out and can fix it if something goes wrong. Sure shops have "warrantys" and all but you know how hard it is to make them live up to it if its a costly procedure to fix whats broken.
I will def build on my own.

I'm with him. I'd much rather do it myself, to KNOW that its done RIGHT and that its done to the BEST of my(knowledgeable) ability. But you have to start somewhere just like they did.
I'm a HUMAN just like the shop thats going to build my motor so the chances of me ####ing up are the same as him. I'm LESS likely to #### up because I don't build a motor everyday so I'll pay EXTRA attention when i'm doing it and I ALSO don't need to hurry to get it done to continue making money for the shop i'm working for. But on the same token, I may not know a trick or two that the shop does which could hurt me if I'm not aware of it.
Since the wonderful thing we like to call internet has popped up. EVERYONE from Guy A to guy X has shared their secrets on how to successfully build a motor. It's nice to beable to pull little tricks that you think will help over others from every which person.

Anyways, i could go on but those are some of my thoughts basically do your research and you'll do fine. If you have to question yourself on whether you did enough research or NOT then keep readin... It's not like you can't tear it all back apart if you skip a step. It may cost a few dollars but experiance IS INVALUABLE!!!
I mean after all, these ARE just machines.

NOTE: I need to start reading the original post better jesus....

 

[EuroGSTSpyder]

another side note on the OP is the fact that a shop has to pay salary, rent, taxes etc etc. Thats where the big bux go I would assume.If you sum up all parts you need if you buy them yourself, and what the shop carges in labour then you have it. They live off of this, you (we) dont.

 

[qtxdevilz]

BEST of my(knowledgeable) ability

that is the problem...he might not know much about rebuilding an engine from top to bottom...again like i said...if you are just swapping out pistons...and plastigauging your bearings...the more power to you...

but if you are doing a complete build...and you are assembling yourself...

find a good machine shop...with a torque plate...

oversized pistons...make sure your machine shop bores according to each pistons and make sure that pistons goes into that specific cylinder it was bored for...double check with a telescoping gauage...

get the crank inspected...make sure you have a mic or digital gauge to read the spec...

weight matching...i have seen rods that came in a ste that were up to 3 grams off from one another...same with pistons...if you put the wrong piston on the wrong rod...you can have 6 grams of off balanced weight in one cylinder...

etc...

i could go on but like i said...if it is a stock rebuild...try it...if it is a built motor...let someone else do it or have someone experienced help you along the way...

 

[hks-gst]

Also having a shop that is dsm oriented like buschur build you a motor, your getting years of R&D from there personal testing to see what tolerances ring gaps,and parts work best etc..

 

[MarsaGSX]

Somewhere read DSM is about be your OWN mechanic...
So, now Iam rebuilding Stock 6Bolt for my 1G AWD and then will build 6Bolt for my 2G AWD...Carrillos,Mahle,Cryoed crank..etc wanna break 10sec@1/4mile

Venca

 

[92DSMErdrick]

thing like
boring
honing
micing (assuming you do not have a mic)
weight balancing/matching
rod stretch measuring
and the expericen from them doing it over 50 million times (but then again how do you know that sbr did not just hire a noob and he messed something up)

This is the most important thing in my opinion. You have to make sure you have a shop that knows WTF they are doing. I've brought a block to one machine shop who was suppose to look it over and they told me that it was in good condition. Ok cool so i had the block honed and hot tanked. I brought that same block to another machine shop who does many more 4g63 builds and when he looked it over the cylinder walls were all different sizes

One cylinder was a thousandths off, 2 cylinders were 2 thousandths off and the 4th cylinder was 3 thousandths off. Either the Over bore to .020 wasn't done correctly or the machine shop took too much off when they honed it.

Some machine shops are good for basic rebuilds and some are good for performance rebuilds. The shop I go to now the owner is an awesome guy. He is very knowledgable and has been building performance motors for some time now. This guy takes the time to measure all clearances and tells you what every journal on your crank is . He will check 10 blocks and cranks and tell you which one he recommends you building over the other.

Make sure you ask your machine shop many questions so you get a feel of if they know what there doing or looking for.

I'm basically letting my machine shop do everything listed at the top then im going to build the motor myself.

 

[hks-gst]

This is the most important thing in my opinion. You have to make sure you have a shop that knows WTF they are doing. I've brought a block to one machine shop who was suppose to look it over and they told me that it was in good condition. Ok cool so i had the block honed and hot tanked. I brought that same block to another machine shop who does many more 4g63 builds and when he looked it over the cylinder walls were all different sizes

One cylinder was a thousandths off, 2 cylinders were 2 thousandths off and the 4th cylinder was 3 thousandths off. Either the Over bore to .020 wasn't done correctly or the machine shop took too much off when they honed it.

Some machine shops are good for basic rebuilds and some are good for performance rebuilds. The shop I go to now the owner is an awesome guy. He is very knowledgable and has been building performance motors for some time now. This guy takes the time to measure all clearances and tells you what every journal on your crank is . He will check 10 blocks and cranks and tell you which one he recommends you building over the other.

Make sure you ask your machine shop many questions so you get a feel of if they know what there doing or looking for.

I'm basically letting my machine shop do everything listed at the top then im going to build the motor myself.

you mean assemble right...Build is when you do all the machining and assembley your self.

 

[92DSMErdrick]

you mean assemble right...Build is when you do all the machining and assembley your self.

You got it man!

Whats up hks-gst, long time no see NYCCDSM

 

[hks-gst]

You got it man!

Whats up hks-gst, long time no see NYCCDSM

I didnt realize it was you .

 

[gsxtacy]

Mechanic and Location

Who is usually more important than where. I am not a race engine builder...but I can assemble an engine properly.

My engine is hand assembled by my hands, and my hands only. I would hate to even begin to think someone did not do
an intergral component install correctly.

 

[nanookszy]

i have built 6 4g63 turbo engines and i'm doing a non turbo right now. it's better to do it yourself. first it's cheaper, second if it breaks you know what you need to do to fix it rather than taking it back to the shop and having the guys look at it for hours and charge you out the ass in labor to fix it. Also for the honing of cylinders, i do it myself. It's not really a hard thing to do, all i have done is the boring. while you're at it might as well do some porting on the head, it's easy as long as you have a steady hand.

 

[ryu]

you mean assemble right...Build is when you do all the machining and assembley your self.

how hard is it to assemble a motor? can a noob do it?

 

[donk]

how hard is it to assemble a motor? can a noob do it?

Everybody starts out as a noob , with good instructions tools planning and carefully asembly and messuring it should be no problem.

/A

 

[Rob10_99]

Ive never done it, but from everything I have ever heard/read/seen,
rod cap stretch is THE most important part of an engine,
ring gap is a close 2nd.


anyone have some good input?

lets sticky some 4g63 rebuild info, wheres the tech articles!

 

[Defiant]

The first time you start up a motor you've built, you'll say, "Well shit. That was easy."

You need the time, place, tools and patience to do it. There's no magic involved, and in the motor world, the DSM engines are pretty simple. No valve lash to adjust, nothing really tricky about it other than the rear balance shaft and that couldn't be easier if you just read the instructions. You might build ten engines in your life, while a shop is liable to do that many a week. You may want to spend the time involved working overtime at your job to pay for it instead of taking the three weeks to get machining, parts, and assembly done. Or, you may want to do things such as porting that a shop generally won't touch.
Like everything else, it's tradeoffs. You have to use your own scales and make your own determination regarding what's the best deal for you.