Holset HX35 vs HX40klkl

[xxShaneOmac]

So Im going to be picking up the Holset HX 35 or 40 turbo, I currently have a FP exhaust manifold ready for it.

Im not sure of what o2 I need tho, Does the BEP bolt on mitsu housing come with the Mitsu 3 bolt o2 side? Are there any Vband o2 sides?

And what o2 should I use? is the o2 outlet 2.5" 3"?

Im going to need to wastegate off the O2 and it will be a recirc back into the o2.

Also one last question,

Is the 40 going to make more power on the same PSI that the 35 would?

Im never going to go into the 35+ range so I want to get the most power with the lower PSI ammount, and the spool on a 2.0 was around 3400 - 3600 on the 35 and 4000 4100 on the 40?

People with these turbos chim in!
Thanks

 

[1gDSM4g63]

The BEP .55 a/r bolt-on is a standard Mitsubishi housing and the BEP T3 .70 a/r has a v-band but if go with the BEP bolt-on the o2 housing needs to be bore down to match the BEP housing.


You're correct about the spool rate for the HX35 and HX40. And a bigger turbo would produce more power at the same psi than a smaller turbo but there is lag.

 

[xxShaneOmac]

So now Im interested in how much more power?

20hp for the same PSI levels? or 50+?
Anyone know.

And I want to know more about what o2 to use with the .55ar Bolt on BEP housing.

Im running FP mani -> Holset Hx(XX) - > o2 external wastegate.

Whate needs to be made to fit? What is the size of the hole for the o2 on the hot side? Anyone have any current setups?

 

[Morphius]

If you use the search feature, you'll find your answers in the appropriate thread(s). Keyword: Holset

Too tired to add links...

 

[xxShaneOmac]

So I searched with the keyword Holset.

Here are some of the results I got.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/192083-holset-turbos-part-2-a-24.html - 718 post

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/274459-holset-turbos-part-3-a-35.html - 1023 post

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/145691-holset-turbos-21.html - 603 post


There was a total of 4 of these Holset threads, were someone got the great idea to throw 3324 post into 4 threads.

Now I know this forum says Search 1st, but if your asking for a few simple questions should you have to read yourway through appx a full novel of text to find the answers cause someone wanted to merge 3324 post?


If anyone knows let me know, thanks.

 

[Morphius]

So I searched with the keyword Holset.

Here are some of the results I got.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/192083-holset-turbos-part-2-a-24.html - 718 post

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/274459-holset-turbos-part-3-a-35.html - 1023 post

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/145691-holset-turbos-21.html - 603 post


There was a total of 4 of these Holset threads, were someone got the great idea to throw 3324 post into 4 threads.

Now I know this forum says Search 1st, but if your asking for a few simple questions should you have to read yourway through appx a full novel of text to find the answers cause someone wanted to merge 3324 post?


If anyone knows let me know, thanks.

There are now 4 major holset discussion threads. There is 1 holset results only thread. The threads aren't one thread, but they are continuations of each. They are broken up to make it easier to referance material in them. It's easier to remember a page number from a set up 30 pages vs a page from 120+ pages. The intent is to concentrate the info to specific threads. It's not conducive for every person to come on here and post the same questions over and over and over, so there are a million threads. Search Holset in the newbie section. Now try to find your info. Would you rather dig through a ton of ramdon threads that contain the term Holset and may not have any info other than the mention of the name? or through threads that are purely discussion on all aspects of the turbos?

I don't know your 02 housing question. I don't recall much discussion regarding 02 housings and fitment issues, but if you joined the discussion thread part 4, you likely would get some suggestions or feedback on your combination. Your other questions... as I said, are in the 4 discussion threads numerous times along with some info in the results thread.

 

[1gDSM4g63]

So now Im interested in how much more power?

20hp for the same PSI levels? or 50+?
Anyone know.

And I want to know more about what o2 to use with the .55ar Bolt on BEP housing.

I cannot make a comparison, but you have to look at the big picture now on choose which to go with and your drive style.

Bigger turbo lags but has much more top-end power whereas smaller turbo has less lag and no or less top end power.

It you go with a big turbo your car also has to be set for it and by looking your profile I personally don't think you're car is ready to get the max. benefit of going with the HX40 without any internals.

Whate needs to be made to fit? What is the size of the hole for the o2 on the hot side? Anyone have any current setups?

I believe the BEP .55 a/r bolt-on hotside is 3" whereas all Mitsubishi o2 housing are 2.5". Not sure, but you'll have to do boring either way. Holset is not so much an easy bolt-on like most think.

 

[dsm-onster]

Horsepower per psi only matters with pumpgas. For example, if you run c16 or pumpgas with water/meth injection, then you can run 35psi with the hx35 and reach the same goal as an hx40 at say 27psi. And get the benefit of a faster spooling turbo. Which fuel will you run?

Your wish list includes a 50-trim. If you want a 50-trim type of turbo, the hx35 w/ bep housing is for you. Faster spool and bolton and more flow up top. What are your goals?

Holset Results thread. Actual horsepower per psi difference is too setup-specific to give a more detailed answer. It will be more horsepower per psi with the hx40. that's all we can tell you. The higher in boost you go, the more the difference will be.

Yes the 1g/2g o2 housing is a step down in diameter to the outlet hole of the bolton bep housing. It is ideal to run a tubular o2 housing. You plan on getting an o2 housing mounted wastegate anyway, correct? there are vendors that have the recirculated o2housing mouted gate configuration out there. It's just a few moments search away. If you're up for some fab work, you can save yourself over $100 .

 

[kottyking]

punishment racing has some awesome o2 housings set up for external wastegates external/internal dump that would work.

 

[xxShaneOmac]

So before the whole Holset came out a 50 trim was my goal, powerwise with money in mind. I wasn't ready to set out 1600 just for a turbo.

Now the holsets are out and the price between the 35 or 40 are very similar.
I allready have a pretty good manifold, FP Race so Im sticking with the mitsu hotside, its just not worth the extra power to waste the money spent + buying an new manifold.

Right now 375 400whp max is what Im aiming for with my current parts list and with the correct flow of exit gases I have everything I need + Head studs and cam's and they are coming with the timing belt job that will be soon.

When more money comes down the line I will pull the engine and have it rebuilt.

I will be running straight E85, No injection, I live in washington so the temps never reach 70 or above 90% or the year and Ill have a CAI ducting for say to keep my IAT's down.

If I can pull the same HP with 10 to 15 less PSI on the 40hx and still spoll in the range or 4k + or - a few hundred RPMS (100 ft elevation) Im thinking the big boy is going to win.

My GSX is a WEW if you wanted to say, she gets 30 miles a month. So its not going to need that DD 3k spoll that she gets right now from the FPT28.

RPM Lauch is set at 5750, lauch and you never really get below 4k rpm's. I build 7psi on the line with the current turbo so the 40 could build even more. Shifting at 6.5k - 7.5k (7.5 w/ cams and springs) with NLTS enabled will keep the RPM's high and boost constant between shifts.

The HX40 is starting to win out.
Ill check into punishment to see if they have any 3" 44mm wastegate recruic o2's, or hell even if they are possible on a mitsu hotside.

Thanks all, anymore input would be helpfull.

 

[1gDSM4g63]

The HX35 would probably be the best turbo in your case if you're looking for low spool. There's no need for a HX40 if your goal are only 400whp, keep in mind that a HX40 optimal point is running in higher rpm and high boost. Plus in order to run E85, you'll need at least 255lph fuel pump and 1600cc injectors and probably an electric boost controller wouldn't be too good of an idea.

 

[xxShaneOmac]

The HX35 would probably be the best turbo in your case if you're looking for low spool. There's no need for a HX40 if your goal are only 400whp, keep in mind that a HX40 optimal point is running in higher rpm and high boost. Plus in order to run E85, you'll need at least 255lph fuel pump and 1600cc injectors and probably an electric boost controller wouldn't be too good of an idea.

Wow did you even read anything in this thread?

1. E85 you need 550cc injectors, you can run them with no management and just E85.
Its thought to be recommended to run 720cc + to make 350whp+

2. I have 880cc injectors and a 255HP lph fuel pump.

3. My car is a WEW I really dont need that much of a low spool point.

4. Why wouldn't an EBC be too good of an idea?

 

[1gDSM4g63]

Wow did you even read anything in this thread?

1. E85 you need 550cc injectors, you can run them with no management and just E85.
Its thought to be recommended to run 720cc + to make 350whp+

2. I have 880cc injectors and a 255HP lph fuel pump.

3. My car is a WEW I really dont need that much of a low spool point.

4. Why wouldn't an EBC be too good of an idea?

WOW WEE right at back... If you don't plan on going high boost then why would you need to be running on E85? And you need bigger injector to run E85. EBC is not reliable on running over 25psi.

WHEWWW....

 

[xxShaneOmac]

There are rules on this forum, search first, if you dont find your answer post.

I did that.

There are other rules, with no usefull information. Do not post.
No "Use the Search" replies.

So stop breaking the rules.

If this site wants to set things up better.

I.e 1. When a search is done, it does more then link you to the 1st page of a 21+ page thread with more then 1thousand posts.

That is not helpfull, you cannot seroiusly expect someone to read 4+ threads of 20 pages coming up to 4 thousand post to get a simple question answered that to my knoweldge is not ther.

2. Stop merging / split up information into sections. Because THREAD 2 THREAD 3 dosn't give me any information into whats going to be in that thread rather then a bunch of peoples opionions.

Also,
Who cares if I have a EBC, i Didnt ask you to figure out if I can boost to the optimional peek level,
And you do not need 1600cc injectors to use E85.

E85 also lets you run more timing so you dont knock, along with boost. And If I want to run 25 PSI with a turbo then thats that.

P.s Im asking what turbo makes more power at the same a lower psi beacuse I dont plan to run 40psi.

So thanks.


Now back to the real reason of this thread,

What did you guys with the .55ar BEP bolt on hotside housing use for your wastegate o2 housings?

 

[1gDSM4g63]

Also,
Who cares if I have a EBC, i Didnt ask you to figure out if I can boost to the optimional peek level,
And you do not need 1600cc injectors to use E85.

E85 also lets you run more timing so you dont knock, along with boost. And If I want to run 25 PSI with a turbo then thats that.

P.s Im asking what turbo makes more power at the same a lower psi beacuse I dont plan to run 40psi.

So thanks.


Now back to the real reason of this thread,

What did you guys with the .55ar BEP bolt on hotside housing use for your wastegate o2 housings?

If that's your view on the situation using E85 then I'll leave to you to learn the lessons the hard way.

And LOOK through the Holset forum to FIND your answer. There are a thousand posts about the Holset turbo for a reason that answers all the question.

 

[dsm-onster]

Low boost bolton housing HX40 setups:

26-27psi 427whp untuned with 272 cams, JMF SMIM and stock exhaust manifold.
26psi 422whp tuned with 272s, stock intake and exhaust manifolds.
Setup closest to yours did 343whp at 24psi with straight pumpgas, not even any water injection so an uber conservative tune, FP race manifold, stock intake manifold, stock cams.

A decent tune at 25-27psi, the fp exhaust manifold and a cam upgrade will put you right in the low 400whp range easily running e-85. You'll see 30-50 more whp at the same boost with a pair of 272s. I say these are hx40 low boost setups because the hx40 really likes 30+ psi.

Hx35 bolton housing at 25-26psi with an internal gate: 494whp with c16 . C16 can deliver similar results to e85, IMHO. This is 100whp more than your goal on lower boost. Now, Jason Morrow had a SMIM, cam upgrade, and a great tune. With no SMIM or cams what do you think he could have done at the same boost?

 

[Ravenous]

Hx35 bolton housing at 25-26psi with an internal gate: 494whp with c16 . C16 can deliver similar results to e85, IMHO. This is 100whp more than your goal on lower boost. Now, Jason Morrow had a SMIM, cam upgrade, and a great tune. With no SMIM or cams what do you think he could have done at the same boost?

Wow... that just clenched it for me. Now it is time to start the HX35 search.

 

[turboglenn]

As is turbo thread have no sense. Grammar not common here, but turbo lag and info on behave of it not correct too.

Thing wanted of lowest boost highest power also not good option when turbo need be operate in it efficiency island, and below that not cool. Buy a turbo not that need to run 30+psi and let only control take to 14 all day. Turbo efficiency island should match the how the car is to be driven and tuned. Now also a dictionary is helpful when needing to use the plural of an object, show possession of an object or behavior of an object. Spell check only works on the words but when you didn't have the right word to begin with it looks like you speak the worst Spanish in the world and had it translated into sign language by a blind burrito salesman with no hands. <--- it all passsed the spell check

Now carry on!

For your turbo...Yes bigger turbos move more air at a lower boost, BUT they spool slower, SOooooo..... IF you can make 300HP on turbo "X" at 15psi and hit full boost at 3500RPM or you can make 300HP on turbo "big-x" at only 8 psi but it doesn't spool until 4500 RPM... Guess who's going to win in 90% of those races...The car with the wider powerband not the one that comes on late, is operating under it's efficiency island and down right dogging around... If it was really this easy wouldn't we all buy huge ass turbos right from the get go and never have to upgrade? I would but the real world isn't like that...YOu need to find a good balance of spool and reasonable boost levels for the degree that your motor is built. Then define the parameters to inject and burn fuel through the motor and you're set.

And yes, i know that i only have 332hp on my avatar but that was on pump gas before E85 and higher boost and timing. Just the change to E85 might allow you to gain enough power that you'll love that 165g all over again. For a street car I would much rather have something that spools really fast, has a broad usable powerband and doesn't surge at 1/2 throttle accelleration

 

[xxShaneOmac]

For your turbo...Yes bigger turbos move more air at a lower boost, BUT they spool slower, SOooooo..... IF you can make 300HP on turbo "X" at 15psi and hit full boost at 3500RPM or you can make 300HP on turbo "big-x" at only 8 psi but it doesn't spool until 4500 RPM... Guess who's going to win in 90% of those races...The car with the wider powerband not the one that comes on late, is operating under it's efficiency island and down right dogging around... If it was really this easy wouldn't we all buy huge ass turbos right from the get go and never have to upgrade? I would but the real world isn't like that...YOu need to find a good balance of spool and reasonable boost levels for the degree that your motor is built. Then define the parameters to inject and burn fuel through the motor and you're set.

Let me get this straight.

Turbo 1 makes 300whp at 15psi 3350rpms
Turbo 2 makes 300whp at 10psi 3900rpms


This seems like its realistic for an Hx35(1) and Hx40(2) for thoes PSI levels.

Now you sit on the line, two of the same cars,
RPM launch is set at 5550, you build 8psi on the line on both ifnot more on the HX40,

They both do a perfect launch exactly the same rpm's drop to appx 4200 rpms and are both instantly full boost, they rev to 7500 and shift, NLTS rpm's are stuck a 5250 and boost is held through the shift and they are both in full power at 5300 rpms.

Im 90% sure that if you make the same power at a level that will allways be below your range of RPM's while racing, you will end the 1/4th at the SAME EXACT TIME.

And If People make 400whp at 32psi on the HX35 and 400whp at 27psi on the HX40,

The spool is less then 600rpms of a differance, (5 less psi also counts beacuse you will reach the lower ammount of PSI 1st.)

But your car will never be at 3300 rpms when racing, and that would be the only point were you would have turbo lag.

And I would rather use a HX40 on my car at 27 psi with a stock block and then forge the block later and then up the PSI and go for 550 whp.

Instead of boosting 32+ to get the same level of power that the hx40 will at lower boost and then choke up top when I do forge the moter.

 

[jrohner]

If that's your view on the situation using E85 then I'll leave to you to learn the lessons the hard way.

I have no idea what you mean here, so because you think 1600cc injectors are a requirement for E85 and that it doesn't make more power without upping the boost -- you want everyone to think that? Is that what you are referring to?

750's are good for over over 400awhp on E85. I drive my car everyday with the setup shown in my profile. Show me a similar setup as mine using pump premium with as much power AND especially TORQUE. Without even so much as changing the timing, you should gain some hp on E85. Optimize your timing table for E85 and hang on. I will never run gas again, never -- pump or race gas.

 

[turboglenn]

Let me get this straight.

Turbo 1 makes 300whp at 15psi 3350rpms
Turbo 2 makes 300whp at 10psi 3900rpms


This seems like its realistic for an Hx35(1) and Hx40(2) for thoes PSI levels.

Now you sit on the line, two of the same cars,
RPM launch is set at 5550, you build 8psi on the line on both ifnot more on the HX40,

They both do a perfect launch exactly the same rpm's drop to appx 4200 rpms and are both instantly full boost, they rev to 7500 and shift, NLTS rpm's are stuck a 5250 and boost is held through the shift and they are both in full power at 5300 rpms.

Im 90% sure that if you make the same power at a level that will allways be below your range of RPM's while racing, you will end the 1/4th at the SAME EXACT TIME.

And If People make 400whp at 32psi on the HX35 and 400whp at 27psi on the HX40,

The spool is less then 600rpms of a differance, (5 less psi also counts beacuse you will reach the lower ammount of PSI 1st.)

But your car will never be at 3300 rpms when racing, and that would be the only point were you would have turbo lag.

And I would rather use a HX40 on my car at 27 psi with a stock block and then forge the block later and then up the PSI and go for 550 whp.

Instead of boosting 32+ to get the same level of power that the hx40 will at lower boost and then choke up top when I do forge the moter.

Well, are you going to daily drive the car, making a track car or just going everywhere wide open not caring that the power is like a light switch from bog to wheelspin? TUrbos should only be picked and matched up according to application, not by the fact that it can make all the power you want at the lowest possible boost setting. I was just offering up some advice from experiences of having customers, friends and myself all at one time or another picking too big of a turbo (like i said, wouldn't we all just get the biggest turbos possible if it were realy that easy?). I'm not going to argue with anyone about anything on this as I get no bennefit from it. Have fun with the new blower and post some pics when it's on and spoolin! I"ll just sit back and observe from here on out. And just to be clear, turbo X and big-x are not supposed to represent the holset blowers, it's just a comparison of 2 turbos that are possible to use on the same motor, one being a biit larger than the other one. I don't care if they're china-whack-a-crack fleabay turbos, same principals apply.

With a few more years of experience under your belt you will understand what i'm talking about and just take note instead of explaining why the wrong idea is supposed to be right.

Also, i must agree E85 is da shiznit.. I started running it this last summer... Started on 720 injectors and 255 wally pump...made it to ~25psi on my garrett 57 trim t3/4 hybrid. Went to 1kcc injectors only to find the pump wasn't keeping up... Besides the fact taht my block has an injury from a huge water hole that i was forced to hit, i was running 30+ psi daily, on the streets with 1 wally 255 HP and a set of four 1000cc injectors.

 

[Slippi84]

Yeah two main problems with your thinking turboglen. One, just because you spool faster doesn't mean you have a broader powerband. Take a t25. It can hit full boost by like 2500 or something dumb but will choke out by like 6k. Now take a 16g that may spool at 3200 but pull until stock redline of 7.5k which has the broader power band...the 16g which spooled slower. Shane is also right about the lauch factor of the turbos too. As a matter of fact a turbo that is bigger and can make the same boost as another turbo with half the boost like your example would beat the quicker spooling turbo in a race because a turbo that is that much more efficient or flows that much more will usually pull better up top and beat the smaller turbo as long the big turbo can stay in boost. This is not for sake of argument but for the point of any post on this site(atleast ideally) for information sake.

I agree you can go to big with a turbo but that all depends on your goal. I run a hx52 which is like a gt42r which for most is way to big but for my car which has a stroker and is mainly a track car that will see the road a very short amount a year it is perfect. You can't look at a turbo and a hp level and determine how fast a car will be because there are so many more factors.


All other post deleted. Just by posting here it under minds the whole holset threads.

 

[xxShaneOmac]

I have mentioned that this car is a WEW (week end warrior)

She gets 50 miles a month.

A DD in sense of having a full interior AC etc, no things are done to make the car a pure track car.

But when Im driving the car I know Im looking for a good time.

Im not bashing anyone, just trying to figure it all out.


I still have 0 information about what o2 housings are best for the BEP bolt on mitsu hotside for the HX40 and HX35.

 

[dsm-onster]

The hx40 spools a hair later than a 50-trim. about 400rpms before a gt35r. It is plenty streetable. Full boost is 4100rpms +/- . The hx40 has a more streetable powerband than a gt3076r, as it reaches peak power earlier, not just outputting more peak power. Upshifting at 6500rpms puts you over 4K. If you stomp on it at 3.5K and you bog, then you didn't know your car, IMHO. It's better to down shift and have more flow per psi. . . Within reason, I'm not encouraging buying a gt42 or hx52.

 

[Morphius]

I still have 0 information about what o2 housings are best for the BEP bolt on mitsu hotside for the HX40 and HX35.

I'll say it again, post your question in the Holset thread, part 5. That is where the poeple running them or putting their systems together are posting/discussing.