HKS 264i/272e Cams set up

[peter_pie]

What is the most common/proven setting for the HKS 264i/272e cams on 4g63 and Evo3 16g.

I know that on 272/272 set ups people are running -4,-1 or -3,-3.
However, there isn't much about the 264/272 set up on the internet even though they are often highly recommended for not so big turbos on 4g63.

Any advice based on real world experiences or trusted source would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.
Peter

 

[nlzn]

Ive got web 264/272's on a fully built head w/ an evo 16g.

If you are referring to adjusting them.. having them dyno'd on your car and then dyno'ing with adjustments is the best way to dial imo

 

[jjgrizz73]

I just installed mine with the evoIII so Im not sure how they are going to perform but I do know they sound great haha. Hks has proven their cams, thats why they are recommended, I doubt you can go wrong with them...are there better for the money? Probably, but you still cant go wrong with them.

 

[Polyol]

hks is over priced. BC all the way.

 

[Kastigir]

hks is over priced. BC all the way.

Except BC doesn't offer a 264 camshaft.

 

[BigSorn]

and it's been proven that hks 272 out preforms the bc 280.

 

[jjgrizz73]

Yes, BC cams are a great price, but they do not perform like other competitors. HKS outperforms BC, FP makes some good cams too

 

[peter_pie]

Thanks for your replies.

I should make it clear I am not looking to buy any cams as I have the HKS Cams installed and I love them too. They work fine but not 100%. There seams to bee too much overlap happening and my low trims are at 81.2% and mid in low 90s while high trim sits on 114%.

I am going to get the HKS Cam gears but obviously I need to know how much I should dial them in.

I am trying to find out if the settings for 272/272 could be used on 264/272.

Your help would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Polyol]

Except BC doesn't offer a 264 camshaft.

they do make a 264

 

[Kastigir]

they do make a 264

Not for a 4G63 motor.

 

[peter_pie]

This can't be that hard to find out? Can it?

1) Does anyone know something about dialing in the 264/272 HKS cams on 1g 4g63.

Additional info: ported head, ported E316g and 3" Exhaust, shifting 7400.

I see two options. One is to leave my stock cam gears in place and just get myself Ecmlink(What an invention. Congrats) and take off tons of fuel down low which will give me more torque due to leaner mixture and proper tune thanks to ECMLink. (Thats what I think but I might be wrong)

The other option is to get the cam gears and degree them to ?,?. I think that going with
-4,-1 set up just as they do with 272/272 should be reasonably safe but again(Thats what I think and I might be wrong.)

Any thoughts?

 

[turboglenn]

Well, to start with peak torque is made on the richer side of a tune..often at 12.5:1 or richer (basic theory in any tuning book you read)

The cam gears and ECM tuning are two completely different things... one physically changes the valve train coordination allowing changes in the power band....the tuning is to extract as much power as you can from each area of the engine operating range, both can help spool a turbo faster but either way you give up one thing for another.

I think you should do some more reading up before starting to make any changes

 

[peter_pie]

Pls, I know the basics. No offense but if u read my posts you will see that somewhere along the lines I talked about taking fuel off down low. (I think this is why you made that not so nice comment in the last post)

You see there is a reason for me talking taking off fuel down low and it is the overlap caused by those cams, bla bla bla. In regards to more reading I can't agree with you any more. I would appreciate if you could send me some links on the topic of this thread. Thanks in advance. You are a proven member so its kind of odd being in my position(newbie) telling you all this.

Ps. My WOT tune is taken care of by Keydivers chip for now.Its great too.

Cheers,

 

[need2boostpsi]

i thought while using HKS cams you didnt need to degree them as you would have to do with other brands, unless you were squeezing everything they had out, but that would require dyno time sense not all cams are the same.

P.S. you get what you pay for with HKS cams, they are built very well with little to no need for degreeing.

 

[peter_pie]

I think u r right about that HKS comes close to being perfect often meaning being better than other brands. While researching this topic I noticed that even HKS are not often 100% degreed(maybe it happens when people use stock cam gears maybe not I don't know) and people benefited from having their cams degreed (I'm talking about HKS 272/272 cams .

In my case there is 8 degrees difference between these cams which is 4 crankshaft degrees difference I am correct hence the overlap. This is good up the top but not so much down low without proper tune cause you are going to be running rich (plus other side effects) without taking some fuel off at idle and mid trims just like in my case. Thats when you could use the cam gears to change the over lap. Yes this will affect the torque distribution but I thing that due to having 264 intake cam I am not going to see a drastic shift in torque curve as you would with both 272s. Or I am completely wrong and I will see a massive shift in torque distribution after retarding those cams accordingly. Anyhow the torque would come earlier anyway so that is what I am after but I still don't know how much to dial in the adjustable cam gears.

Thanks all for your input.

 

[peter_pie]

Anyone?

 

[turboglenn]

Pls, I know the basics. No offense but if u read my posts you will see that somewhere along the lines I talked about taking fuel off down low. (I think this is why you made that not so nice comment in the last post)

You see there is a reason for me talking taking off fuel down low and it is the overlap caused by those cams, bla bla bla. In regards to more reading I can't agree with you any more. I would appreciate if you could send me some links on the topic of this thread. Thanks in advance. You are a proven member so its kind of odd being in my position(newbie) telling you all this.

Ps. My WOT tune is taken care of by Keydivers chip for now.Its great too.

Cheers,

Sorry man, i wasn't trying to come off cocky or anything (but often in text when being blunt, i sound like a d!ck). Just saying that peak torque will be lost no matter the overlap if you're leaner than the motor wants to be. and generally 12.5 is a starting point and go richer from there when looking for peak tq numbers

Now as for the reading part... Any of the corky bell books (there's 3 of them) are good places to start, then i'd have to look in my closet to find some other good titles but if you want them let me know and i'd be glad to get them for you. I usually go to barnes and noble and look in their motorsports area.. you'll find whole books on tuning stand alone EMS's even..believe me if you want to do it, there's a book on it! Some of them just get pricey.

I read a LOT, then apply theories in real life and see what happens, most of the time what the older guys write in their books is pretty damn close even on todays modern hi-po imports

Sorry again if i offended you, maybe i should have used more smilies

BUT either way The theory of tuning the cams OR the ecu for that low end is not a good way to think. You want to tune the cams to put the power range wher eyou want it by advancing or retarding them. THEN you want ot tune the ECU to extract the most from your setup, and like i said, you have the peak torque backwards...go richer not leaner! Take care, let us know the progress

P.S. I have the same cams in a 1g motor and haven't dialed them in any yet with the gears, so if you do some playing around, please post your results...I'm espoecially interested since you run a (small to me ) 16g. I'v ebeen thinking about downsizing turbos, but the smallest i will go will be 18g and i'm still not sure i want to go that route since i have a full garrett setup already in great shape (save for the turbo inducer blades being beat to hell)

 

[peter_pie]

No offense taken at all turboglen. Thanks for the advise on some book titles and for sharing your knowledge. I agree with you that old school info is often spot on with modern recomendations etc. (They can't really reinvent the physics that easily.)

You see, I was trying to save up on some dyno time (which I have to pay for) by hopefully having some proven numbers for those cams and just dialing them in. I cant believe that it is so hard to come across somebody who has degreed those cams degreed. There are many I can find with the 272s on the intake side but not 264s. Kind of strange especcialy that quite few people have this set up and it is widely recomanded.

I cant't agree with you more that starting with 12.5 and reacher for peak torque is the way to go but I am running very rich at idle. Ecu is trying to take out as much fuel as it can but its still not enough and it stinks rich too and thats on about 2psi lower fuel pressure than it should( chip tuned for 37psi BFP and 650s FICs ). If I crank it up by 2psi on the FPR my mid trims also go down to 81.2%. Hi trim sits on 106% the last time I checked.


I still can't believe there isn't much info on the net about these cams set up.

Ps. what is your timing advance set at. I am running 10 but I am positive that the car is willing to take more than that. Not sure if I can though without (again) a Dyno run.

Cheers Glen, lots of