High School Shop Class Project

[gijoe985]

I just wanted to start a thread on behalf of the new car I got for our high school auto shop program. I'm the teacher. I've owned some DSMs before, never went crazy modifying them, but I used to spend a lot of time reading on these forums. I just picked up a car today. Don't even know that much about it, but wanted to get a thread started where we could document our progress and moreso, ask lot of questions!

Car- 1995 GSX
From what I was told-
6 bolt motor
Holset turbo (size currently unknown)
FMIC
880cc injectors
DSMLink v2
Aftermrket radiator
Full exhuast
CIA
Large cams? He guessed 280+? (This car belonged to the guy's brother. He himself owns a fully built dsm, but he wasn't totally sure what his brother had on it exactly).
"Full suspension kit with 2" drop". (He seemed to use brand name parts, so hopefully not ebay...)
I think he said Tial BOV
Greddy Turbo Timer
Probably more I can't think of...

All this said, he said that it started to run rough when he parked it. Then left for college, never looking back. Aside from that he wanted to make it a full drag car, so the door panels, part of the dash, and entire rear portion of the interior are gone. Either way, I paid $1000 and feel like it was a decent deal. There is a 2g eclipse (rs or gs) around the corner from me for sale for $500 that I might pickup for the wheels/tire as we as the interior. Oh yeah, about half of the clear coat is missing too. Bad oxidation.

Either way, we have a full shop program. We can build motors, paint cars, etc. Sop hopefully it'll be a fun build! Tomorrow we will run a compression test and then maybe try to start her. Got to put the ECU back in and figure what else is apart. The exhaust manifold bolts were off? We shall see...

 

[gijoe985]

Don't worry about the fuel rail either, stock will handle quite a bit. A wally 190 doesn't really require an afpr either a 255 does however. (although some will swear a 255 doesn't either)
But that is just info for down the road...

What are the plans with the car/class do you intend on getting it up and going in one semester with the same cohort of kids?

Good to know. I haven't actually looked at the fuel pump yet. Will soon.

We will be pulling the oil plan. Short day today and taking tests, so we just got it on the lift.

The turbo does look kinda ghetto fabbed on there.

Right now we just want to get it running so we can figure out where we're at. We'll see from there... I'd like t balance out the upgrades. I.e. if we have all air upgrades and insufficient fuel, I want to get the fuel system running well.

We have DSMLink v2. It says on it that it was already tuned to the 880s. I've never used DSMlink, so I've got some learning to do...

It seemed to make the same evil noises on every cylinder. I'll just get that oil pan off asap. We don't have a borescope yet, but I'm going to pick one up today or tomorrow.

 

[gijoe985]

Fyi, we're up on the lift and going to take the oil pan off to inspect, but we also just came to find out that the guys who made the exhaust essentially made a one piece unit, all the way up to turbo. So no o2 housing or downpipe, just one huge thing... so that makes removal a bit more tricky. I may look into fabbing up a new setup so we can more easily remove the downpipe. Thankfully we have a plasma cnc to cut out some brackets...

 

[gijoe985]

Looks like some crank walk. All of the bearings are "badly worn" nothing catastrophic... This leaves my right on the fence as to whether I'd wan to try slapping new ones in there, or pulling the motor.

I think I'll have kids start freshening up our 6 bolt motor that we already have on the stand and then just put new bearings in this. If this works, great. If not, we'll pull it and drop in the 6 bolt.

What do you guys think?

 

[GST with PSI]

I'd say go with the 6 bolt. Might as well since the 7 bolt walked.

 

[gijoe985]

And the learning process begins! Got the top bearings swapped out, the period ends, and then I come to notice that they installed the lower bearings up top!!! So, we get try #2 tomorrow. Well, it's good practice I guess.

 

[factorycoltgt]

I put this in your profile discussion but im putting it hear too as i think you will find it valuble
in asking about a tuning or efi resurce book for a classroom tool

I cant reply yet to your other post asking about a tuning book but here is my suggestion.
try the book from the guys who came up with megasquirt efi. Its a standalone efi system similar to dsmlink aem etc. But tailored to the diy crowd.
its an amazing company with amazing products. They wrote a book that covers efi systems and tuning. Its probably the closest thing to what your looking for. Here is the link

https://www.diyautotune.com/product/performance-fuel-injection-systems-hp-books/

 

[Sp1kE]

This is super cool!

Just a suggestion, I'm not sure if you have enough resources for this.
But maybe have them get the car converted back to stock. Running in good order. And add the upgrades one at a time so they can see what each change does to the car, and show them what a boost leak can do to the car.

Log it all with dsm Link and maybe show on a projector the logs back to back and the different AFR's and Airflow numbers. Kind of neat to see the graphs back to back. This is how I learned a lot, very quickly.

Also that Book/Fourm posted above is amazing. I played around with megasquirt quite abit, its how I gained 90% of my efi knowledge.

 

[DogWhistle]

You can see that there is a lot of support and excitement about your project.

From those of us that have completely re-done multiple DSM projects, we quickly discover that you can get lost chasing problems, from compression to fuel to electrical to ...etc. For your sanity, and, perhaps, a larger lesson for the students, outline your steps. Help them diagnose, then plan then participate in the rebuild of that system.

Probably none of the classes will get to participate long enough to see the whole project finished, but at least they would get to learn about how to systematically approach car restoration and modification.

We understand the thrill a new DSMer has when they get their first one and slap a new turbo on, drive it like they stole it, and consequently blow it up. It sours their car and DSM experience, and lowers the reputation/value of the DSM platform.

If there is one thing I would emphasize, it is to professionally align-bore and turn your new engine parts. With high boost and high rpm, these engines don't last long without the core of the engine receiving extra attention.

The condition of your DSM is not unusual for an abused and abandoned project. Many students can only afford one car at a time, and don't have the luxury

 

[DogWhistle]

of one car to let sit and not drive, so learning to diagnose key systems, and keep it running, are important lessons.

 

[GST with PSI]

We understand the thrill a new DSMer has when they get their first one and slap a new turbo on, drive it like they stole it, and consequently blow it up. It sours their car and DSM experience, and lowers the reputation/value of the DSM platform.

^Exactly.

If there's one thing you can use this car to do, it's teach a new young generation of prospective DSM'ers how NOT to modify DSMs. And not just DSMs, but cars in general. Being able to provide them with foundational knowledge, and then apply it hands-on to a real car is the absolute best way to learn. You just need to make sure you're doing your best to convey the right knowledge to your students. So, for DSM specific stuff especially, please, feel free to ask all the questions you want, and I promise the DSM community here will do their best to answer them.

By design, much of the ricer mentality just comes from a younger crowd of enthusiasts trying to modify cars without the knowledge to truly do it successfully. We all need to do our part to help educate people about the DSM platform if we expect a young generation of aspiring DSM owners, and the DSM community as a whole to ever overcome the "ricer" and "DSMer" stereotypes.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Well put Brett!!!

 

[born2race]

I love this! I recently graduated high school and all my time was spent in my auto program. Every year I come back and support all the shows and events the auto shop has since I am so grateful for having such an awesome program and want future students to have the same! I actually got my DSM back in high school and without the auto shops help I would've never got it running. Definitely a great project for the kids to learn on! Will be following this thread. Good luck!