High School Shop Class Project

[gijoe985]

I just wanted to start a thread on behalf of the new car I got for our high school auto shop program. I'm the teacher. I've owned some DSMs before, never went crazy modifying them, but I used to spend a lot of time reading on these forums. I just picked up a car today. Don't even know that much about it, but wanted to get a thread started where we could document our progress and moreso, ask lot of questions!

Car- 1995 GSX
From what I was told-
6 bolt motor
Holset turbo (size currently unknown)
FMIC
880cc injectors
DSMLink v2
Aftermrket radiator
Full exhuast
CIA
Large cams? He guessed 280+? (This car belonged to the guy's brother. He himself owns a fully built dsm, but he wasn't totally sure what his brother had on it exactly).
"Full suspension kit with 2" drop". (He seemed to use brand name parts, so hopefully not ebay...)
I think he said Tial BOV
Greddy Turbo Timer
Probably more I can't think of...

All this said, he said that it started to run rough when he parked it. Then left for college, never looking back. Aside from that he wanted to make it a full drag car, so the door panels, part of the dash, and entire rear portion of the interior are gone. Either way, I paid $1000 and feel like it was a decent deal. There is a 2g eclipse (rs or gs) around the corner from me for sale for $500 that I might pickup for the wheels/tire as we as the interior. Oh yeah, about half of the clear coat is missing too. Bad oxidation.

Either way, we have a full shop program. We can build motors, paint cars, etc. Sop hopefully it'll be a fun build! Tomorrow we will run a compression test and then maybe try to start her. Got to put the ECU back in and figure what else is apart. The exhaust manifold bolts were off? We shall see...

 

[lasershark]

Sounds like a fun project, we need some young blood to keep this platform alive!
7 bolt vs 6 bolt easy way to tell
http://www.vfaq.com/mods/early-late-engine.html

 

[unwound]

Sounds like you guys are gonna have some fun!!!!

 

[DogWhistle]

Nice! Welcome to the forum. Thank you for showing your students the flexibility of the DSM platform. We will watch for your questions and updates.

 

[sleeper1ga]

Wish my class had a performance car to learn on, all we get is stuff that was on it's way to the junk yard. Interested to see where this goes for you and your class, good luck man!

 

[2gmitsueclipse]

Thank you for sharing your new project. Perhaps you may want to create a build thread, and post your updates there instead of the newbie forum. This would be a perfect way to update us on your class's build progress. You can find out more about this here:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/we...o-create-a-dsm-profile.499707/#post-153564173

 

[JaysGSX]

This sounds interesting! I am definitely interested in a build thread for this like 2gmitsueclipse mentioned above. I wish they had anything even remotely close to this at the school I went to way back when. Closest thing we had was metal shop, haha! Be sure to keep us all updated one way or another, and good luck with whatever you and your students do with the car.

 

[miliman13]

This is interesting, please feel free to flood us with pictures...... No seriously ...

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

What a wonderful project for learning that is for sure. Welcome and I know that any questions can be answered from searching or asking here. You are going to be in for a real ride with a Holset on your project car, so be prepaired!!! I will be following your progress also! What a great teacher!!!!

 

[300K_1G]

Awesome news. I'm happy to see the kids getting an opportunity to work on a car that they will enjoy working on. Much more inspiring than an '85 Chevette! I think the coolest thing is that with the modifications, they'll get exposure to working a lot on tuning and electronic controls, which is much more in-depth training than most introductory classes like that can offer. Have fun, and please start a build journal! Selfishly, we'd love to see your progress, but even more importantly for your students, it will be a great scrap book/portfolio entry to refer back to.

 

[gijoe985]

Sounds like a fun project, we need some young blood to keep this platform alive!
7 bolt vs 6 bolt easy way to tell
http://www.vfaq.com/mods/early-late-engine.html

Thanks, all I knew from the very start is that the valve cover looked identical to the one I had on my gvr4.

Thank you for sharing your new project. Perhaps you may want to create a build thread, and post your updates there instead of the newbie forum. This would be a perfect way to update us on your class's build progress. You can find out more about this here:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/we...o-create-a-dsm-profile.499707/#post-153564173

I will look into a build thread, thasnk you!



FYI- hooked up a battery and things got hot! Took it off, found out that the engine 20A fuse had been removed and that I've got wires that must be shorted. There are two paired up sets of white wires that attach to the battery terminal, one of which reads 1.6M ohms of resistance and the other .6 K Ohms. So, key off, etc, we've got resistance to ground... I'll have to start trouble shooting. Gotta go locate my old FSMs...

Kinda curious what Holset turbo we have too. Looks like the ID tag was removed.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Post up a picture of the turbo and of the engine bay along with the car so we can help out. I have 2 Holset's and they both have ID tags on them. Probably a HX35 but could be a 40. Both flow 50-60+ lbs per minute when they are up there in the rpm's, that's when they really start working! This almost let's us all feel like we are part of the class which is very cool. Like 300K_1G said, the kids and you will all get to experience electronics and tuning along with the basic mechanics and maintenance. It's a win-win from my perspective as I have a son in Vo-Tech class for auto mechanics myself and I think HE could teach them all something since he helped me build and drive mine from street to strip. Heck, he can even read a log on ECMLink which I think is impressive. I hope you can incorporate some track time for the kids if possible and I wish they had that when I was a kid....a long time ago .

 

[Dragnous]

Will be watching this one myself.

 

[gijoe985]

Ok, my short to ground goes away on the .6k ohm wire when I remove the ign. sw. 30a fuse. The 1.6M ohm short goes away when I remove the 60A Fuse(+B) fuse.

Here are a couple pics of the car and the turbo-

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[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Sometimes when the ID tag is missing it is because it is a Chinese knock off turbo but the man that can for sure answer that is Justin - JusMX141. He is a great turbo man and my only one.

 

[gijoe985]

Sometimes when the ID tag is missing it is because it is a Chinese knock off turbo but the man that can for sure answer that is Justin - JusMX141. He is a great turbo man and my only one.

From the looks o fit, it looks like it was removed from another vehicle... i.e. a diesel... which would make me think it was legit, but from what? There is a part of an unused bracket on it. You can see it on the right side of the picture on the compressor housing.

Hooked up my battery charger straight to the battery cables (no battery) and I've got dash lights with the key out... Time to start hunting.

Th hardest part about a project like this is that we only get like 1.5hrs a day to work! And I want to keep going...

 

[gijoe985]

Ok, so good news, I did a compression test (kinda) and got high numbers on all cylinders...

Bad news- so, while I got over 150psi on all cylinders, I had as high as 190 on some, I had a wicked bad noise coming from the engine when doing the test, so I never really was able to get a solid reading because I was hesitant to spin the motor. What is really weird is that it only happened when the compression tester was in. With it out, all plugs out, it spun fine and didn't really sound bad. But with it in, it sounded very bad...

Teacher or not, I've never ran into anything like this before.. kinda crazy. Have a listen. (I'll note, it was the same on all 4 cylinders, bad sound when in, ok when not.)

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[JDT]

From the looks o fit, it looks like it was removed from another vehicle... i.e. a diesel... which would make me think it was legit, but from what? There is a part of an unused bracket on it. You can see it on the right side of the picture on the compressor housing.

Hooked up my battery charger straight to the battery cables (no battery) and I've got dash lights with the key out... Time to start hunting.

Th hardest part about a project like this is that we only get like 1.5hrs a day to work! And I want to keep going...

That Holset is off of a Cummins diesel truck. Also that's a TiAL wastegate, the bov is stock from a first gen eclipse/talon.

This is cool though, I wish I went to a school that had programs as awesome as this.

 

[gijoe985]

That Holset is off of a Cummins diesel truck. Also that's a TiAL wastegate, the bov is stock from a first gen eclipse/talon.

YUP, totally realized that when I walked back out to the shop and looked at the car...

Thanks on the Cummins truck info! So, does that make it the HX35?

 

[gijoe985]

Another question!

So, if I got 185psi on my compression test, do you think this guy swapped a NT 6 bolt motor into this car and left in the higher compression engine???

 

[gijoe985]

Sounds like a fun project, we need some young blood to keep this platform alive!
7 bolt vs 6 bolt easy way to tell
http://www.vfaq.com/mods/early-late-engine.html

Checked it. It appears we have a 7 bolt motor. A 6 bolt would have been cool, bt not a deal breaker. I have a 6 bolt sitting here on a stand anyway. So if this motor has issues, we'll swap it in.

On that note, I waited an hour or so and tried cranking it again. Still, with all plugs out, it sounds fine, put a compression tester in and it turned once sounded good and then it made a horrid grinding to a halt noise. #Clueless

We'll probably just get it on the lift and take the oil pan of. Hopefully we can learn something...


UPDATE- Ok, so much to take in... I am now looking at this whole thing and it dawned on me... Big turbo, intake and exhaust, 880cc injectors with dsmlink... but I don't see a single fuel upgrade?!?! Looks like stock rail, no AFPR, and probably a stock fuel pump... Oye... I believev I have a walbro 190LPH pump laying around. That should suffice for now. But I'd need an AFPR. What about the fuel rail? What will stock take?

 

[BostonGST]

Stock should take the 190

 

[lasthope05]

The turbo is a hy35 from the looks of it thats been ghetto rigged to work on a dsm manifold.

 

[GST with PSI]

So, it was the exact same sound regardless of what cylinder the tester was in?

If it only makes the noise with the tester in a certain cylinder, that's indicative of a rod knock (Unless somehow you have 4 bad rod bearings). With no plugs/compression tester, that means no compression, so the motor will spin over nice and smooth. But, when you put the tester in, compression will load the piston/rod and cause a bad bearing to knock on the bad cylinder. It would happen on the power stroke as well if the car were running. I'd swap the tester, or even a single spark plug between cylinders and see if you can narrow down the noise.

Alternatively, you can drain the oil and check for glitter. More yet, pull the oil pan and check for spun bearings and damage. There's not many other things that I know of that'd cause knocking only under compression.

For your high compression results, check to make sure you don't have oil leaking into any of the cylinders which would boost compression. Bad valve seals, a leaky head gasket, or leaking valve cover gaskets (you'll see oil in the plug wells from this one) can all lead to oil getting into the cylinder when it shouldn't be. Id say if in doubt, back your compression test up with a leak down test to narrow down the issue.

If you have a borescope, you can check the markings on the piston tops to determine the piston and motor (assuming nobody swapped pistons, and they're not covered in carbon)

Turbo pistons are marked accordingly:
63DT = 1G Turbo
63DT F1 - 2G turbo

 

[lasershark]

Don't worry about the fuel rail either, stock will handle quite a bit. A wally 190 doesn't really require an afpr either a 255 does however. (although some will swear a 255 doesn't either)
But that is just info for down the road...

What are the plans with the car/class do you intend on getting it up and going in one semester with the same cohort of kids?