HELP! runs like crap after HKS 264/264 install

[laza101]

Having a problem with my car. THE TIMING IS SET PERFECTLY, THE CAMS ARE ALIGNED. Something else happened during the cam install and I didn't hit any valves.

1) My car is runnin rich
2) My car bucks/misses at low rpm while cruising with no throttle being applied
3) At WOT the car runs great... no bucking is present
4) My plugs and o2 sensor are fine except for #2 spark plug which was fouled (!?!?) - black compared to other plugs. I tried another plug wire but it didn't help. Replaced the plug and the problem is still there.
5) My idle is very irratic.... it will idle fine for 30 sec to 1 min then start flapping around. example: 800-900, 900-600, 600-1000 and eventually almost stall out...missing/surging
6) I adjusted my biss screw and that helped the idle a bit but ony for a short time. it soon went back to its old way..
7) Playing with timing and/or fuel pressure has very little effect.
8) Compression in all cylinders is 145 to 155 psi.

Any ideas?

 

[TSIfreek]

The 272 exhaust is making it run like shit . The 272 is a race grind made for high boost drag engines. I know alot of people run them(even on the street) but they also have huge turbos that need the exta the 272s give on the exhaust side.
On a street car I feel its a waist of time because the power band doesnt come on untill 5000 rpm but pulls real hard.
Anyway to help you out in your case get a 2g mass air and a SAFC , 660s and have someone tune it to make it more driveable.
You can run eazy high 11s on stock cams with the correct equiptment.
I have driven a 1g AMS tuned and built car with the same set up running a t3/t4 turbo and it never wanted to Idle corectly and street driving power sucked untill 4500-5000 came in. Pulled very hard.
I am not knocking HKS cams at all they are great for there intended aplication. They are very expensive to boot. I just feel you cant beat the smoothness the stock cams give you.
1g 90 manual cams seam to be the setup alot of us are running.
If you are looking for a lopy Idle like a V8 it will never happen with a 4 valve because it is more efficent and engine doesnt have the other cylinders to make that happen.

 

[white 2g awd]

The 272 exhaust is making it run like shit . The 272 is a race grind made for high boost drag engines. I know alot of people run them(even on the street) but they also have huge turbos that need the exta the 272s give on the exhaust side.

hes got the 264/264 combo, no 272s

Dustin

 

[1fast97gsx]

you just need some tuning then if your timing is perfect.

 

[TSIfreek]

sorry dude I thought I read you had 272 exhaust cam in there.
The 264s should be fine just have it tuned and you will be happy.

 

[swordfish]

272s are not drag only cams. I run them in my daily driver as do many others.

If the car is bucking and whatnot like you describe, you need to go back and check everything you loosened or replaced. Then check for boost leaks and the like. Its not the cams themselves causing it because installed properly 264's idle pretty much like stock. It will probably end up being something small that you just over looked.

jeff

 

[yo2001]

Might need to reset the ECU.

 

[bastarddsm]

I would check the cam timing. I know you say it is right, but it could be off a little. when i put my car together it was off one tooth on the intake side but i though it was correct. It wouldn't iddle for crap, has all the symptoms you describe. I thought i had it right but it was off by one tooth.

 

[danielbui]

just curious, when you installed your cams did you also install an aftermarket spring and retainer kit too or did you just slap on the cams with old springs and retainers? the reason i ask is because all cam companies recommend this to be done at the same time. the cams, retainers, and springs wear at the same time.

 

[laza101]

just cams - i have no issues revving to 7500rpm

Hey guys,
When I'm adjusting the base timing to 5 degrees with a timing light, are the cam sprockets supposed to be misaligned? At what setting are they supposed to be aligned? My intake cam is 1 tooth lower than exhaust when using timing light (they are aligned when I lower timing to 0), but they are perfect when stationary.

 

[forcefed98gst]

just curious, when you installed your cams did you also install an aftermarket spring and retainer kit too or did you just slap on the cams with old springs and retainers? the reason i ask is because all cam companies recommend this to be done at the same time. the cams, retainers, and springs wear at the same time.

You don't have to or need to replace the springs or retainers with new cams.

 

[forcefed98gst]

just cams - i have no issues revving to 7500rpm

Hey guys,
When I'm adjusting the base timing to 5 degrees with a timing light, are the cam sprockets supposed to be misaligned? At what setting are they supposed to be aligned? My intake cam is 1 tooth lower than exhaust when using timing light (they are aligned when I lower timing to 0), but they are perfect when stationary.

Your supposed to watch the mark on the lower timing belt cover to set your base ignition timing. Cam sprockets have nothing to do with this. So your balance shaft marks, oil pump, crank sprocket, and cam sprockets are all pointing to their respective positions?

 

[danielbui]

You don't have to or need to replace the springs or retainers with new cams.

it was worth a shot.. BANG!!!! darn it, missed.

 

[laza101]

timing is fine, everything is aligned

 

[Generation X]

272s are not drag only cams. I run them in my daily driver as do many others.

If the car is bucking and whatnot like you describe, you need to go back and check everything you loosened or replaced. Then check for boost leaks and the like. Its not the cams themselves causing it because installed properly 264's idle pretty much like stock. It will probably end up being something small that you just over looked.

jeff

I agree. I run the HKS 264/272 combo with my FP ported Big28 with supporting mods, and the car runs and idles like a champ.

 

[laza101]

I've got some more info:

The o2 sensor seems to sit near full rich while it is idling sometimes (about .8V). My low fuel trim is 81.2%, med is 86% and high is 88%. Fuel trims were above 100 before the cam install!

While cruising on highway, my o2 will go to rich (about .8V) and stay there, then it would fluctuate really fast while the car started missing.

Could a bad O2 sensor cause the car to do this, or am I really running rich? I'm wondering what changed? The only things that were touched during cam/turbo install are cam angle sensor, o2 sensor and mass air sensor. I checked for boost leaks at about 5-10 psi yesterday, no problems.

P.S. My injectors are 650cc and they are about 3 months old. Any suggestions?

 

[RDS]

Cruise O2 voltage should be around 0.5volts and more if you start to load the engine.

 

[ITSME4G63]

dude, you are worried abou tyour idle with performance cams? shit , my idle is fuccked up with stock cams, sometimes idles at 2000 when driven for a while. Just be happy that it aint that high ehhehehehe

 

[laza101]

I have more info!!!

I took my spark plugs out again and my #2 CYLINDER spark plug was noticeably darker than the others - this is the same cylinder that I had the first fouled plug! I will try to swap injectors to see if it is injectors or ignition problems. BTW I swapped ECU's and the problem continues. Also, I have been running BPR7ES spark plugs for 2 years without problems.

Based on all the information and logs I have, the problem IS NOT:

-O2 sensor
-spark plug wires
-spark plugs
-timing
-ECU
-boost leaks
-low/no compression
-TPS or ISC

Here's what it could be:

-coil pack/transistor not firing?
-injector staying open
-????

 

[TSIfreek]

What plugs are you running? How old are the plug wires?. How old is the o2 sensor??

 

[laza101]

Yo,
Plugs (BPR7ES) are less than 6 months old, O2 is about 2 years old at most.

 

[LowFourteen95]

Did you ever find out what was causing your problems?

 

[laza101]

No I didn't, here is what I tried:

-re-installed timing belt
-tweaked ecu programming (injectors, airflow, timing, etc)
-adjusted camshaft position sensor
-checked for boost leaks
-disconnected EGR valve
-replaced o2 sensor
-checked battery grounds
-replaced spark plugs
-swapped injectors (trying to see if it was confined to 1 cylinder)

I am getting rid of the car so I will never really know why the problem existed. I didn't bother to reinstall the stock camshafts to see if the problem went away. I have theories though:
-The car was using a lot of oil (almost a quart a week), either from a head gasket leak or the turbo, so maybe the oil was causing poor combustion. I found a fouled up spark plug twice in only a few months.
-Poor ground and/or airflow to o2 sensor (not likely, problem still evident when I unplugged it). I replaced the o2 housing with a huge tubular one at the same time as the cams/turbo/exhaust.
-Camshaft sensor missing counts at low RPM, I never tried to replace it. Maybe the HKS cam misaligned the sensor? The timing at idle was all over the place as well, but that may have been due to the fluctuating RPM. I doubt this was the problem as the car ran great under load/high RPM.

 

[scottsee]

off your question, but in regard to your thread. in my automtive textbook it lists to replace the lifters (soaking them in oil overnight) when installing new cams. does anyone actually practice that?

 

[Shifty]

Congratulations, your modified car does the same thing my stock car does.

No. 2 Cylinder completely black, the rest fine?
Engine starts bucking when getting into boost?
Running completely rich when it bucks?

Seafoam.
When that tank of gas is gone, take out plugs. Blast them off, Check Gap, and Put them back in.