Help... put transmission back in and problems

[carbonfire]

Ok... so I am way new here... I have a 91 eagle talon TSI and just stuck a new transmission in it... Car starts and runs fine, but you put it into 1st gear and drive it and it seems like the rear end is not going as fast as the front end or something. I hear like a clicking noise... almost sounds like a CV... but I dont think it is because they are all pritty new also. So I shut the car off and pushed it back to the garage for the night.

What the heck is going on. Could the wheels have been turned and the viscus couppleing uint not be turning all the wheels at the same time... Or is it possible that the transfer case is not bolted in all the way......

Argh some one please help... I just want to drive my car again....

 

[carbonfire]

well I have one other question.. The transmission is a 90, the car is a 91. Is it possible that the transfer case had a diffrent spline count and that casue it to be all crazy and stuff.... becuase it was really hard to put the transfer case on the car. eah.... let me know.. I am soo confused... I am about ready to make the car not so AWD and rip out the transfer case and the rear axle.

 

[carbonfire]

Got to thinking about it and we may have the wrong transfer case on there... The transmission, t-case, and rear end are out of a new style DSM, and the new transmission is out of a 90..... argh.... more problems

 

[carbonfire]

eah my T case fit on but it was a really really hard... I dont know if it is right or not.... I am sooo mad... I want my darn car to work.

 

[AWDgsx905speed]

They made 22 splines up intil mid 91 so it is possible to get a 22 spline 91 trans or transfer case. As for putting on a 22 spline to 23 spline practically impossible. Did you get a JDM transfercase or trans? I remeber hearing that they also have different ratios than the US model. Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[carbonfire]

I dont really know... I guess I might try putting the other transmission back in there and see what happens.



I want my car back

 

[pneumo]

Where did the rear end parts come from? The auto tranny DSM has a different rear diff gear ratio, and certain JDM T cases also have different ratios. You can't mix different gear ratios.

 

[carbonfire]

Well they are both 23 spline.... and a friend of mine has like a 95 T case he is going to let me try that is also 23 spline... so I guess that old T case might have been the problem not the transmission.... I dont know... we will find out tomorrow

 

[carbonfire]

Yeah that clicking noise is what makes me think that the gears inside the transfer case are shot... but umm... we will find out tonight I guess.

 

[ihatedsms]

i have the same problem!
i just swapped my tranny its a 90 jdm tranny in my 90 talon
when i try to drive the front wheels spin wayyyy more then the rear wheels
and makes a clicking from the t-case, so i went under the car with it jacked up and spun the front wheels with my hand and, it should stop, cause of the rear tires being on the ground, but instead it just click from the tcase and spinns forever....I DONT GET IT, DOSE THAT MEAN ITS THE T-CASE??, i even changed my vicios cuffling casue i thot mayb that was blown and i still have the smae problems

 

[ihatedsms]

P.S. im a bad typer..

 

[pneumo]

I would check the center shaft. That's the shaft that goes to the transfer case from the tranny. The splines on the center shaft wear out over time, and the matching splines in the T-case also wear out.

It could also be a busted center diff.

You can check both by dropping the T-case and looking at the splines. While you have the T-case off, spin one of the front wheels and see if the center shaft spins. Grab the center shaft and hold it while spinning a front wheel to see if you can keep it from turning. If you can, then the center diff is shot. If both shafts turn together, the center diff is good. It's normal for the center shaft to turn at a different speed than the front axle shaft.

 

[4pistons]

spin one of the front wheels and see if the center shaft spins

If you have an open front diff, which most DSMs have, and an open center diff, which most DSMs have, spinning one front wheel will tell you nothing about the center diff.

The splines on the center shaft wear out over time

Only if your center diff is worn and allows the shaft to move longitudinally. If you grab the output shaft and can move it in and out by more than a sixteenth of an inch the center diff is worn and your output shaft and xfer case is soon to follow.

Rick - '91 GSX

 

[ihatedsms]

i checked the shaft and it look fine,..
and i also looked at the splines on the t-case they looked fine too
i dropped th t-case and spun the front wheels like you said and the shaft dose spin, and i tryed to hold it too.. but then.. i put the t-case on the shaft half way so i can see it and spun the front wheel and the shaft did NOT spin, it just stayed still while the wheels spun..
so from what you said before, dose that mean i prolly have a busted center diff?..

 

[ihatedsms]

to 4pistons
well wouldnt the front wheels stop spinning if the back wheels are on the ground,... if the front wheels keep spinning obviosly somthing is wrong.. the shaft is not spinning when the t case is on....soo idunno

 

[4pistons]

if the front wheels keep spinning obviosly somthing is wrong

Do you mean BOTH at the same time or one or the other? An open front diff lets either wheel spin freely. With no load on the front end and no load on the output shaft it may spin just from friction of the rotating parts. But with the xfer case on you're adding enough resistance to stop it. It does not neccessarily mean your center diff is shot.

Rick - '91 GSX

 

[ihatedsms]

oh i see what you mean, but this is what happens when i drive the car, it just clicks, and dose not spin ther t-case..driveshaft..rear and its basically fwd... do you have any ideas wat else it could be if its not the center diff? im getting so frustrated with my car i go out everyday and try to figure out what wrong and cant figure out anything

 

[4pistons]

when i drive the car, it dose not spin ther t-case..driveshaft..rear and its basically fwd..

How would you know that while driving it? Put the entire car up solidly on jackstands and run it through the gears and really see what spins.

do you have any ideas wat else it could be if its not the center diff?

It would be very hard to say not being there and seeing what's going on. But it is mechanical so it should be pretty straightforward to test and eliminate certain components.

First off, do you have a shop manual???? You can't possibly expect to do diagnostic work on DSMs without one. Get one first if you don't have one.

Transmission: Does it go through the gears properly without grinding or binding or the clutch slipping? Are there any metal fragments in the oil?

Transaxle: With the trans in gear can you turn the output shaft by hand? If yes, it might be the Viscous Coupler. It's easy to change but make sure you've got one that you know is good to replace it. The output shaft splines aren't worn down are they? Can you move the output shaft in and out more than a sixteenth of an inch? If yes, your center diff may be worn out.

Transfer case: If you spin the input does the output spin? There's only gears in there so it either works or it doesn't. It can't slip.

Rear end: Do both rear axles and the driveshaft spin freely when turned by hand with no clunking, binding or grinding?

By examining each system methodically you can eliminate areas where there isn't a problem and let you focus in on the areas where there might be. You'll never solve a problem jumping aimlessly from one component to the next or guessing what the car is doing.

Rick - '91 GSX

 

[ihatedsms]

im not an idiot i just dont know whats wrong

(How would you know that while driving it?)
because the front wheels are spinning more then the rear alottt more..

(Put the entire car up solidly on jackstands and run it through the gears and really see what spins.) i already did this and like i said the front wheels spin more then the rear, that why i said that

(First off, do you have a shop manual???? You can't possibly expect to do diagnostic work on DSMs without one. Get one first if you don't have one.) i have one

(Transmission: Does it go through the gears properly without grinding or binding or the clutch slipping?)
it goes threw the gears fine, but feels like it slips if i try to launch it.... there are no metal fragments in the oil

(Transaxle: With the trans in gear can you turn the output shaft by hand? If yes, it might be the Viscous Coupler.)
this was what i thought was wrong and the first thing i checked, i put another one in and it dose the same thing

(The output shaft splines aren't worn down are they?) no there fine

(Can you move the output shaft in and out more than a sixteenth of an inch? If yes, your center diff may be worn out.) i didnt check for that yet, but i will as soon as i can

(Transfer case: If you spin the input does the output spin? yes they both spin

(Rear end: Do both rear axles and the driveshaft spin freely when turned by hand with no clunking, binding or grinding) yess that fine

(You'll never solve a problem jumping aimlessly from one component to the next or guessing what the car is doing.)
im not guessing what the car is doing ive bin out there 3 days in a row and i know wats happing i just dont know what it is....whats happing is the shaft that goes to the tcase dose not spin, so wat ever is keeping that from not spinning is the problem... and this is why im only getting power mostly to the front wheels

 

[pneumo]

You can check both by dropping the T-case and looking at the splines. While you have the T-case off, spin one of the front wheels and see if the center shaft spins. Grab the center shaft and hold it while spinning a front wheel to see if you can keep it from turning. If you can, then the center diff is shot. If both shafts turn together, the center diff is good. It's normal for the center shaft to turn at a different speed than the front axle shaft.

I just re-read what I wrote and I wanted to clarify something. When I said to spin one front wheel and see if the center shaft spins or not, I meant that you should have the other front wheel on the ground so it can't spin.

When I troubleshoot a drivetrain problem like this the first thing I do is a resistance check for each wheel. There are several ways to break an AWD drivetrain, and some problems have similar simptoms, so this helps to narrow it down. To do this check, make sure your drivetrain is fully assembled. If it's apart, put it back together.

Grab a jack and jackstand. Raise a front wheel off the ground. Make sure the transmission is in neutral, parking brake is on, and the other front wheel is on the ground. This basically locks 3 wheels to the ground, and one wheel is free to rotate. Grab the wheel and try to turn it. There should be a bit of freeplay, then you should feel resistance. If you push hard the wheel should rotate slowly. On a normal car 1/4 turn of the wheel usually takes a couple seconds. While you're pushing and the wheel is turning, listen and feel for binding, grinding, clunking, and anything odd.

Repeat with the other front wheel. Make sure the other 3 wheels are solidly on the ground.

Do the same with the rear wheels, except you'll have to be carefull that the car doesn't roll off the jack since you have to unlock the parking brake. So jam some wheel chocks under the front tires. If you don't the car WILL roll off the jack when you try to rotate the wheel. Repeat the resistance test with each rear wheel.

Let us know what you find. You seem like you know your way around the car, so any extra details you can provide will help narrow it down. Good Luck