Help me figure out whats wrong with my motor, please...

[Spoolin98]

Ok so here is what happened. I was on the highway on a hot day and I did several back to back full throttle pulls. On my last pull I was letting the engine brake itself from about 5k rpms down and I felt the motor kind of jump or hesitate a little. At this point I thought the timing belt skipped. I looked down at my gauges and saw my oil temp gauge maxed out at 300* plus. So I immediately shut the car off and pulled to the side of the road. There was smoke coming out of the valve cover when I removed the oil cap. The dipstick looked dry so I went and bought oil. By the time I came back the oil temp was down to about 120* and I checked the dipstick again and the oil was right where it was when I first started the car. I topped it off with about a half a quart and started the car.
The car started fine and idled fine for about 4 seconds and then a noise started, sounded like it was coming from the head. It wasn't going with the motor though. So I had my car towed home.

I let the car sit for a few days before looking at it, I needed to cool down. I pulled the valve cover, I found nothing obvious. I pulled the plugs and turned the motor by hand, still nothing obvious. It turns and gets a little tough at one point, but it still turns. And I don't hear any major malfunctions while turning it.
So I stuck a 10 inch 3/8 extension in the number one cylinder and turned the motor till it hit top dead center, both the timing marks on the cam gears line up perfectly. I didn't check the lower timing yet, but it looks like the timing is still on point.
So I drained the oil to see if it was broken down or separated from being heated to over 300*. I put a screen in my oil pan and drained it. It came out really thick, but didn't separate. After it was done draining I found 4 tiny pieces of metal stuck on the screen. They were so small and thin, as thin as or thinner than aluminum foil. You could pick them up and fold them in half with ease, just like tinfoil. I tried to pick them up with a magnet and couldn't, so I'm pretty sure they are aluminum.

Next I pulled the intake; the turbo spins freely and still no shaft play.

The motor has almost 5k miles on it and had the oil changed 8 times, is this wear in metal? Should I be concerned?
Everyone I talked to said its good they aren't chunks of metal, obviously. My one friend said he had the same metal in his pan after a fresh rebuild.

What do you guys think my problem is with the motor? Could it simply be the oil? Could changing it solve my problem of this noise?

Once I figure out what happened to my motor, I need to find out why the oil over heated.
Could several back to back pulls with and external oil cooler cause your oil to over heat on a 85* day?

I'm just looking for ideas or possibly someone who had the same problem.
Let me know what you guys think, any ideas will help.

My next step is to pull the oil pan.

 

[TeclipseFTW]

What does the noise sound like? A tick or a loud knock? I also over heated my engine and developed two destinct noises, one of my lifters got louder, (which isn't that bad) but I also warped a rist pin which is why I am now rebuilding my whole engine.

 

[Spoolin98]

Well I technically I didnt overheat the motor, I just overheated the oil.
The coolant temp was fine, right around 190* when this happened.

So tonight I decided to pull the oil pan after finding those metal shavings. Looks pretty bad...

Tons of little metal shaving at the bottom of my pan, most of them arent magnetic but a few would grab. Some of them are kind of thick shavings but still easily bent or folded.

After doing some reading on here I mostly read bearings are the culprit.
Could overheating the oil cause this?
If not, what caused it? The block was built by a "reputable" shop.

If it is the bearing, did I catch it early enough to just replace the bearings?

I turned the motor over by hand with the pan off and nothing seems to be getting caught up and I didnt hear anything abnormal.

Please help me out, Im lost as what to do next...

 

[lacroixdp]

It is consistent with the top layer of a bearing, which is usually tin, copper, and lead - all non-magnetic. It is possible your oil broke down to the point the crank started making contact with the bearing. I'd recommend taking off a cap and seeing if your top layer is wore down. If you don't want to do that, at the minimum you should send a sample in for an oil analysis. That would also confirm if your oil broke down or not. Out of curiosity, what type and what viscosity of oil are you using?

 

[TeclipseFTW]

Exactly, when oil gets to hot it loses it's function! Put up a video of the sound or at least describe it. Is it a knock (metal on metal) dose it get louder and faster with higher rpms?? From the top of the engine or lower? All these will help determine the noise, an then we can proceed with some tests, but answer the questions first

 

[92awddsm]

Exactly, when oil gets to hot it loses it's function! Put up a video of the sound or at least describe it. Is it a knock (metal on metal) dose it get louder and faster with higher rpms?? From the top of the engine or lower? All these will help determine the noise, an then we can proceed with some tests, but answer the questions first

No need to hear the noise now. The pan is off and full of shavings.

Pull a rod cap and main cap and inspect the bearings. Im sure you will find that they are toast. I wouldnt take a chance of just replacing bearings. If it were me, I would pull the crank and measure the journals. If it checks out ok, polish it and install new bearings.

 

[TeclipseFTW]

I was providing help based on his perceivable level of knowledge and experience. So, if you know what to look for in a bearing then go for it, but like was said, just going on a hunch and replacing the bearings and hoping for the best... Anyways if the problem is a rist pin you more than likely won't be able to tell just by looking up in the block. Also when you turn your engine by hand you won't be able to hear the problem

 

[92awddsm]

I was providing help based on his perceivable level of knowledge and experience. So, if you know what to look for in a bearing then go for it, but like was said, just going on a hunch and replacing the bearings and hoping for the best... Anyways if the problem is a rist pin you more than likely won't be able to tell just by looking up in the block. Also when you turn your engine by hand you won't be able to hear the problem

99% of the time, a wrist pin isnt going to leave a pan full of metal shavings unless it starts coming out and gouges the cylinder wall. At that point, the shavings would be magnetic. If the shavings were part of the piston from the wrist pin eating it up, there would be plenty of slop on the small end of the rod. Out of the 15yrs I have been a machinist, I cant say that I have ever seen nor heard of a warped wrist pin. Ive seen them bent, broke, galled, loose press, etc, but never warped.

OP, do you still have balance shafts in place?

 

[TeclipseFTW]

Ok we still don't even know what the noise is, yes the metal shavings aren't from the rist pin, Im considering the more than likely multiple problems. Also you mentioned that the block was just rebuilt? Was the breakin process complete yet?

 

[jrohner]

Oil will get quite a bit hotter on a fresher tighter engine. I don't think 300` oil is a big deal if you use decent oil, unless it made you have extremely low oil pressure. If you see those temps or higher often though, an oil cooler wouldn't be a bad idea.

If it was me, I'd try to start it and see if there is any noise or any issue with the oil pressure being lower than usual.

 

[Spoolin98]

The oil used was Valvoline 20w-50 racing oil

The break in process was complete, I did exactly what Jackson Auto Machining told me to do. The motor had less than 5k miles on it

The sound did sound like metal on metal, it was NOT consistent with the motor rpms. It didnt sound like a spun bearing, it wasnt loud enough. And it sounded like it was coming from the head.

Some of the shavings are magnetic, but majority arent.

No balance shafts

My buddy said if the oil was broken down it would have seperated, which it didnt. Is this true?

 

[olmytsi]

Sorry to hear this, I followed your build thread last year.

 

[92awddsm]

My buddy said if the oil was broken down it would have seperated, which it didnt. Is this true?

No. It would be dark in color, almost burnt looking

 

[jrohner]

So can you describe the sound it made when you started it back up? Was it missing, shaking, or vibrating at all? Knocking, ticking, scraping, etc? Have you checked the sparkplugs to see if any of them look different? Have you done a compression test? Looked at the pistons with a flashlight?

 

[Spoolin98]

Sorry to hear this, I followed your build thread last year.

Thanks, im not surprised though, its just my luck

 

[Spoolin98]

No. It would be dark in color, almost burnt looking

Well it was really dark, but it didnt smell burnt. It came out of the pan thicker than normal.

 

[jrohner]

Thanks, im not surprised though, its just my luck

I know that feeling. My bad luck has been with the transmission & clutch.

 

[Spoolin98]

So can you describe the sound it made when you started it back up? Was it missing, shaking, or vibrating at all? Knocking, ticking, scraping, etc? Have you checked the sparkplugs to see if any of them look different? Have you done a compression test? Looked at the pistons with a flashlight?

It was more of a knocking sound than anything. It wasnt missing, shaking, or vibrating. It was idling like normal just making a knocking noise that was not consistent with the engine rpms.

The spark plugs are fine. I havent done a compression test, I was planning on it if I dropped the pan and didnt find metal. But since I struck gold I figured I found my problem.

I havent looked down the spark plug hole at the pistons but I looked up from the crank and they look fine. All the cylinder walls look good from what I can see too.

 

[turboglenn]

have you pulled the bearing caps yet? I wouldn't crank the motor over anymore until you inspect the rod and main bearings, other wise you may just be doing more damage to your car. There's no way that things in that motor are ok enough to keep troublee shooting with that much shavings in the pan... pull it apart!!!!

 

[Spoolin98]

have you pulled the bearing caps yet? I wouldn't crank the motor over anymore until you inspect the rod and main bearings, other wise you may just be doing more damage to your car. There's no way that things in that motor are ok enough to keep troublee shooting with that much shavings in the pan... pull it apart!!!!

I havent cranked the motor over at all since I first heard the noise.
I havent gotten a chance to pull the caps, now that I know its the bearing Im just going to pull the whole motor.

 

[TeclipseFTW]

so you found out that it is the bearings? was there a warranty on your engine?

 

[Spoolin98]

so you found out that it is the bearings? was there a warranty on your engine?

Well I havent pulled the caps yet but Im pretty sure its the bearings.

No warranty, even if it had a warranty I wouldnt deal with Jackson Auto Maching ever again anyway.