help, Im knocking and dont know how to stop!!

[frigginlazer]

Ok, first my situation, and then a bunch of questions. Mods, if this is the wrong spot please let me know and move it... this is a newbie thats trying to tune, so confusing...

Ok I have bneen playing with my logger, MMCD for a few weeks now and have NEVER noticed knock. basically stock, free mods and a MBC set at 14psi. I normally run 91 octane gas, but today found 93. while running with the cruise set at 75, not boosting yet, showing 10inches of vac, i saw my knock count flutter a bit up to about 7 off and on. while climbing a small hill, still in cruise, boost went to about 5psi and knock hit 43. Timing advance dropped to 4 deg but knock diddnt go away untill I shut down cruise so that the car decellerated. now I cant really run much over 65 with out some knock, and when ever i Boost it just goes up.

Questions:

1. Knock is detonation right? is there and acceptable level?

2. higher octane rating loweres knock right? ie 15 psi of boost might knock on 87 octane, but increasing to 91 should help right?

3. Lowering boost level should help, ie dropping from 15 psi to 8psi...

4. Would adding a gallon of Tolulene raise the octane rating significantly to a safe or helpful level?

5. Lifter tick fools the Knock sensor right? If so how do I determine that is what it is before I castrate my motor by cutting boost levels?

6. My motor is stock, shouldnt the ECU be able to protect my motor if I drop the boost level?

7. If by some chance I have a bum tank of gas, will I kill my motor if I run it through? I have a 96 mile drive to work and for the next 3 days while on my work scedule, draining the tank really isnt an option.

8. any reccomendations?

9. Probably TOTALLY unrelated, but I noticed that the knock level was higher when I had my Sub hitting HARD and LOUD. (Alpine type R with 500W rms) That rattles the crap outta my car, but it shouldnt be able to mess with my knock sensor right?




Thank you all for taking the time to read through all this.


Mike

 

[frigginlazer]

thanks for all the help guys. Engine blew on the way to the shop. now Im trying to decide if I should re-build or replace the motor, or just scrap the car and try with something different....

Mike

 

[asexton6969]

Sorry i just saw this today and i was gonna reply and then i saw ur last post. I kinda think something else was going on if ur engine blew on the way there. It sounds like it might have been for the best. Rebuild it and start over on a fresh engine.

 

[frigginlazer]

from what the shop said I have a couple lifters seize. does that sound reasonable? It lost a lot of oil while I was driving and I know my lifters went from simply ticking to well, what ever is more than ticking.... and then bang, she stopped.

Shop said lifters and a new valve job should put it back on the road. Of course the want 25.00 apiece for lifters..... Im getting them from slowboy racing for 150.

Hope this works.


Mike

 

[asexton6969]

Where the hell did all the oil go? Sounds like it could happen, im just confused as to where all the oil went. Well i spose now you can get the revised lifters.

 

[frigginlazer]

from looking at the car Im guessing that my valve cover gasket blew out on the passengers side. Oil is ALL over there. Yea Im going to get the 3g lifters and see what happens.

Of course now I am doing this myself, the mechanic had a accident at his shop and is now in the hospital. I guess he used a floor jack and it collapsed on him. I heard that and couldnt get my car outta his shop quick enough.



Mike

 

[yotabeater]

if you want to save a little bit of money, the 3g lifters are available at parts dinosaur for like $125. every little bit helps!!!!

 

[frigginlazer]

well I pulled out the old lifters and cleaned them as the VFaq says, and since Im bored I put the car back together and it runs again. verry little tick, in fact just normal valve noise. I am still going to get new lifters as I am getting knock at 4500-5000 rpm and i think it is due to lifter tick. Now I am trying to figure out why my engine stopped. I dont kow. any ideas? Could a stuck lifter do that? and then I cleaned it so it isnt stuck any more. there were a few that were tight as heck to gt out, and a couple I actually had to use pliers to pull them out...

as to the parts Dinosaur.... I saw them on E-Bay and will probably go through them. thanks for the info.

Is there an easir way to remove the rocckers other than to pry them off? I did all but the ones closest to the cam gears, as I diddnt know If i would be able to pop them back on.

Mike

 

[asexton6969]

Wow that sounds familiar. The circle piece in the valve cover. Just last friday that piece blew out of mine. My oil went spilling out...Wierd as hell.

 

[Talon_For_Life]

Don't confuse lifter noise and knocking. From my understanding they are two distinctly different sounds. If you can hear the "ticking" above road and wind noise then its most likely knocking. Otherwise if you just hear sort of a "rattleing" noise when the cars stopped its ticking. I have a bad tick with my car (1g '90 TSI) but I can't hear it from inside my car with the windows up at all. I have to get outside the car and walk to the front of my car in order to start to hear it.

A quick fix for the lifter noise is to get some Lucas Oil Supplement (from what I've heard). Theres a huge artical on what to do http://www.dsmtuner.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118213

Other then that sounds like your cars cursed or you have some bad luck.

Theres my 2 cents,
Xan (TFL)

 

[GimpyTalon]

Lucas does nothing but HURT your oil & gear oil ... I wouldnt put that crap in my lawn mower.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/images/lucas/lucas.htm

 

[DSMnewbi]

Lucas does nothing but HURT your oil & gear oil ... I wouldnt put that crap in my lawn mower.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/images/lucas/lucas.htm

I don't buy it, I have used Lucas in my WRX, a friends STI, and my 1g dsm... When I do oil changes, the oil color HASN'T changed. When I put it in after the oil change I notice a difference right away, smoother idle, no tick, etc. Also, the crap he used was colored redish and what I use is green.

 

[GimpyTalon]

Bob the oil guy is one of the LEADING oil research sites. Do what you will, but NO ALL-IN-ONE ADDITIVE can work with every formulation of oil... thats just scientific fact. If you're going to fix your lifter tick, do it the right way. He's not saying the color is going to change .. if you had read that more throughly or the following thread you'd see that is air trapped in the oil.. which will go away. However, while the motor is in operation thats baaaaaaaaaaaad news. Where there is air, there is no oil.

 

[DSMnewbi]

Bob the oil guy is one of the LEADING oil research sites. Do what you will, but NO ALL-IN-ONE ADDITIVE can work with every formulation of oil... thats just scientific fact. If you're going to fix your lifter tick, do it the right way. He's not saying the color is going to change .. if you had read that more throughly or the following thread you'd see that is air trapped in the oil.. which will go away. However, while the motor is in operation thats baaaaaaaaaaaad news. Where there is air, there is no oil.

I read the whole thing VERY thoroughly. I'm talking about the color of the Lucas not the color of the oil.

I'm not doubting that it doesn't work with every oil, but it sure as hell works with Mobil 1.

 

[GimpyTalon]

What are you talking about? The only thing in the demonstration was gear-oil with Lucas added... not straight lucas.

Hey, well you're the expert at oil formulation.. not me. Take it as you will and keep using your snake-juice

Now I remember why I never post on this forum. I'll stick to my MMCd thread.

 

[DSMnewbi]

Where did you get I'm using straight Lucas from? Didn't I just say I use Mobil 1?
BTW, I never said I was an expert at oil forumulation, just that Lucas works with Mobil 1.

 

[GimpyTalon]

Where did you get I'm using straight Lucas from? Didn't I just say I use Mobil 1?

Re-read what you posted earlier, and perhaps why I'm confused over what you said will become clear. :laugh: Also I wouldnt say it works well with mobil1 until you do some scientific study on air entrapment and its climbing ability/disability.

I'm done.

 

[Tevenor]

Where did you get I'm using straight Lucas from? Didn't I just say I use Mobil 1?
BTW, I never said I was an expert at oil forumulation, just that Lucas works with Mobil 1.

That can be retyped as "Mobil 1 is good enough to cover for the f\/cked up shit you just put in it".

Oil addiditives will not cure the problem caused by faulty lifters. It will simply mask them for a time. Stop doing shit half-assed and do it right the first time and replace the damn things.


You f\/ck up with your girlfriend. Do you buy her just the stems or the whole f\/cking rose? Don't that little prick on the stem.

 

[Tevenor]

I wasn't aware that Subaru's had faulty lifters...

.... I wasn't aware you were posting on a subaru site.

 

[DSMnewbi]

Wow, K, you're a dick.

 

[Tevenor]

Wow, K, you're a dick.

You work that out by yourself or have a team of trained monkeys work round the clock on that.


Enough off topic discussion. This poor guy blew his motor.

On topic: Make sure that you DO NOT reuse the lifters that were in the car. Even the ones that still slide will have heat spots and warpage and will eventually cause you problems. Replace them all with 3G lifters.

 

[DSMnewbi]

You work that out by yourself or have a team of trained monkeys work round the clock on that.

Off Topic: at least you have a good taste in movies

 

[Tevenor]

Off Topic: at least you have a good taste in movies

Thanks. Now back to topic.

 

[frigginlazer]

new lifters are on the way from slowboy racing.Should have her back on the road next week.

as for the off topic lucas debate.... Used it once in a rx-7. never again. Baaaaaaaad things. Foamy oil, poor oil flow, not enough oil getting to various parts of the motor...



Mike

 

[yotabeater]

i got baaad lifter tick in my 91 tsi. i don't have enough for 3g lifters right now, and nothing i tried would get rid of the ticking. i use royal purple full synthetic oil. i tried a can of the 6 cylinder "engine restore" in the silver can, and it made the lifters almost silent. yeah, it's a quick fix, but just for now until i can afford new 3g ones.