HELP! Blown engine???

[blackGSX2g]

Well, I just had a brand new evo 16g turbo installed about 600 miles ago, and this morning I was crusing on the interstate and I noticed it started chugging a bit. When I got off, the thing stalled and when I restarted it, it sounded like a metallic chunking sound. I pulled over and shut it off and the coolant hose was about to pop and coolent temps were 246* on the logger. Every time I restart it, it makes that godawful sound and stalls out. What could possibly be wrong? Its sitting in a gas station right now cooling down so I'll look at it later. Any suggestions?? Please help me!

Oh yea, BTW I checked all the belts and they are good, no oil leaking...just a tiny bit of coolant from the hose from being so expanded. No oil leaks, no clouds of smoke, pulled the dipstick to see if there was metal chunks on it...nothing yet, but it was too hot to drain anything out to check. I'm gonna go in an hour or so and pull the plugs and see if the pistons are still there..grr. I'll update when I know more.

 

[heavyD]

Tow the car to a good mechanic and have him diagnose it. That is the best thing you could do.

 

[blackGSX2g]

UPDATE: Pulled all plugs, nice tanish color, no problems there. Pistons are still there at least. Still making noise, idle is at 500 but doesn't stall anymore and the knocking sound seems to come in waves almost. As RPMs increase to 1000 noise gets a whole lot louder. Checked coolant, no oil in it. Checked oil level...ok, color is brownish, but there looks like a little bit of black in it.(could be just old oil on dipstick) Doesn't smoke, when I first started it up, there was little whisps of white smoke, but nothing out of the ordinary for any car after just starting it up. I disconnected spark and fuel and just cranked it over a few times and it didn't make any bad noises. I'm planning on having it towed (again in the past 2 weeks) to a shop tomorrow, just looking for any ideas to give my mechanic on what could be wrong. <- another person thinking that all DSMs should come with a flatbed as standard equipment.

 

[crashed97tsi]

If you got a compression checker, take that too. SOunds like you have a blown head gasket.

edit: Check your timing also, might be off a couple of teeth. Good luck

 

[Defiant]

IT'S BLOWN.

Jesus, either stop trying to run it, or go ahead and start it up with the throttle wedged full-open and tape it for us.

Either way, count on a major rebuild. Which, in DSM-speak, usually means a used replacement.

 

[WhiteCloud]

Defiant, I usually appreciate your posts as insightful and helpful. But the above is just an ignorant remark. If you don't like the thread, don't read it or post in it. The guy is just trying to describe his problem and see if anyone else has had a similar problem or can help.

You obviously can't, but someone else might be able to. So stop telling the guy he needs a new engine when you don't know for sure.

 

[Defiant]

Defiant, I usually appreciate your posts as insightful and helpful. But the above is just an ignorant remark. If you don't like the thread, don't read it or post in it. The guy is just trying to describe his problem and see if anyone else has had a similar problem or can help.

You obviously can't, but someone else might be able to. So stop telling the guy he needs a new engine when you don't know for sure.

"Ignorant"?

"When I got off, the thing stalled and when I restarted it, it sounded like a metallic chunking sound."

"UPDATE: Pulled all plugs, nice tanish color, no problems there. Pistons are still there at least. Still making noise, idle is at 500 but doesn't stall anymore and the knocking sound seems to come in waves almost. As RPMs increase to 1000 noise gets a whole lot louder."

He's hammering on a live grenade with a six-pound sledge. Motors don't make "metallic chunking sound"s.

It's blown.

 

[blackGSX2g]

Well, I don't think its in the block. I pulled the plugs and checked out all the pistons and they were all dry and I had someone crank it over without spark/gas and they moved straight and looked fairly normal. It sounds like the noise is in the head, maybe a lifter siezed up or something. The metallic knocking sound seems to be in time with the camshafts turning, so that leads me to believe its in the head. I had it towed to the shop yesterday and they're gonna check it out and let me know. I'll update when I know more, thanks.

IT'S BLOWN.

Jesus, either stop trying to run it, or go ahead and start it up with the throttle wedged full-open and tape it for us.

Either way, count on a major rebuild. Which, in DSM-speak, usually means a used replacement.

What in my post made you think I was trying to run it? I pulled over immediately and shut it off. I only restarted it after a few hours to see if it sill made that noise. After that, it was towed.

 

[sirhcs 4g63]

i had the exact same thing happen to me. i put a new 16g on my 97, drove less than 800 miles and had a clunking noise start. i had to have my ride towed 180 miles on a flatbed trailer so i totally agree with the flatbed trailer being oem equipment. somehow in less than 800 miles, after installing a new turbo, stainless steel oil feed line and return, the 4.5 quarts of oil magically disappeared with ZERO smoke from the exhaust. now i'm yet ANOTHER engine down with a third ready to go into it. wish someone could tell me wtf is happening to my car.

 

[Defiant]

What in my post made you think I was trying to run it? I pulled over immediately and shut it off.

This part here:

I only restarted it after a few hours to see if it sill made that noise. After that, it was towed.

"Restarting" means "run". Or, it does on my home planet.

You've jumped timing. And, you've bent all the valves .

 

[Logue]

my guess is you spun a rod bearing and blew a head gasket all at the same time. i did the same thing on the highway car shut off. Tried to restart but only made the worst noise i never want to hear again.

 

[blackGSX2g]

I dont think its the headgasket though, cause my oil and coolant looks fine. No mixing at all.

I restarted it because when it shut off the first time, the coolant was bubbling in the radiator hose and coolant temps were 246*, so I wanted to see if it was related to the hot coolant temps. I also wanted to log a few things really quick to see if I could bring any more info to my mechanic.

If my timing jumped and the pistons are hitting the valves, wouldn't it make that same noise when I crank it over with disconnected spark? Also, If the valves are bent, the damage is already done, so a quick restart is not the end of the world.

When I logged timing advance, idle timing looked completely normal. If it jumped a tooth, wouldn't timing advance be off?

 

[GSGoinFast]

I dont think its the headgasket though, cause my oil and coolant looks fine. No mixing at all.

I restarted it because when it shut off the first time, the coolant was bubbling in the radiator hose and coolant temps were 246*, so I wanted to see if it was related to the hot coolant temps. I also wanted to log a few things really quick to see if I could bring any more info to my mechanic.

If my timing jumped and the pistons are hitting the valves, wouldn't it make that same noise when I crank it over with disconnected spark? Also, If the valves are bent, the damage is already done, so a quick restart is not the end of the world.

When I logged timing advance, idle timing looked completely normal. If it jumped a tooth, wouldn't timing advance be off?

im sure more damage can be done by keeping it running. so it makes the clunking sound when its running, but not when its cranking? i dunno whats up with that, but the rest sounds like a timing slip to me

 

[crankbender]

More than likely you spun a rod bearing or something similar. The clunking in this case is based on the accelerations of the piston...higher RPMs means more noise.

This is why you can't hear it when it is just turning over...

This is most likely your problem.

 

[98RedGs]

I just got over the same problem with my car and guess what... DEFIANT was right on the money with what was wrong with mine and not 3 days later I was doing a 6bolt swap or saving the cash for one.

QUIT TRYING TO CRANK IT TO SEE IF YOU CAN HEAR/SEE ANYTHING ELSE WRONG What you should be doing instead is either ....
A: Lowering the oil pan to check for damage.
B: Draining the oil to check for silver shrapnel (since you were to lazy to drop the pan)
C: Get it to a mechanic that will look at the car rather than try to crank it and log the car or check the timing.

The reason its wanting to die when it's idling and the reason its dying or "lugging" is because you are probably only running on 3 piston/rod combos and ones now sitting in your oil pan.



Drain the oil.
Then come back and tell us what you got.

 

[blackGSX2g]

Please read my posts more carefully...All the pistons are where they should be, move the way they should, and are not in my oil pan (pulled that off when I drained my oil) I had said that there were no metal flakes in the oil, and was verified when I cut the filter open. That was listed above already. Also listed above was the fact that my car WAS in fact towed to my mechanic days ago.

I'm not just sitting here twidling my thumbs driving my car around like an ignorant maniac.

I cranked it over ONCE and started it ONCE for 20 sec after it died just so that I could get more info to take here and share with you guys so that I wouldn't just come here saying "Dude, my car is making a bad noise...whats wrong?"

I'm not trying to attack or claim anyone is wrong. I'm just trying to give you guys enough info so that if anyone that has been through the same thing, they can chime in and offer assistance.

Oh yea, when I checked the bottom end, I just made sure everything was there and moved ok...I didn't have the resources to check anything further than verifying everything was there and looking ok. I know this does in no way rule out a rod bearing or anything like that, it was just looking for something big. I will keep you guys posted when I find out more tomorrow.

 

[scottr126]

Did you ever find out what happend to your motor?

 

[98RedGs]

That was listed above already. Also listed above was the fact that my car WAS in fact towed to my mechanic days ago.

I cranked it over ONCE and started it ONCE for 20 sec after it died just so that I could get more info to take here and share with you guys so that I wouldn't just come here saying "Dude, my car is making a bad noise...whats wrong?"

I'm just trying to give you guys enough info so that if anyone that has been through the same thing, they can chime in and offer assistance.

But you keep adding to it is my point. By no means was my "attitude" put towards you in any way. It was towards someone basically blasting on a mod because a mod is telling you his assumption on a cars problems with the information he was given.

I read all of your post about 3 times each and never in any of them UNTIL NOW did you say anything about dropping the pan. You also stated that you were going to drain the oil but it was too hot to do so so you would go back and do it later.

Also your not looking for flakes more of a metallic just silver color... when mine went to shit it didn't have actual parts in it just the look. When you drained your oil what color was it? Because honestly even if something damaged in the head it should have drained some down into your oil pan through the head I would imagine... Can you have your mechanic remove the valve cover and look in and give you a update on what that looks like. Being as your stating how your idling I would honestly assume it is something in the bottom end even tho to you or me it looks fine.




Not trying to attack you but I honestly think it's your bottom end. When you get the updates from the mechanic please let us know asap.







Key Information So Far That I seen

Every time I restart it, it makes that godawful sound and stalls out. What could possibly be wrong?

Its sitting in a gas station right now cooling down so I'll look at it later.

Oh yea, BTW I checked all the belts and they are good, no oil leaking...just a tiny bit of coolant from the hose from being so expanded.

No oil leaks, no clouds of smoke, pulled the dipstick to see if there was metal chunks on it...nothing yet, but it was too hot to drain anything out to check.

Well, I don't think its in the block. I pulled the plugs and checked out all the pistons and they were all dry and I had someone crank it over without spark/gas and they moved straight and looked fairly normal.

It sounds like the noise is in the head, maybe a lifter siezed up or something. The metallic knocking sound seems to be in time with the camshafts turning, so that leads me to believe its in the head.

I restarted it because when it shut off the first time, the coolant was bubbling in the radiator hose and coolant temps were 246*, so I wanted to see if it was related to the hot coolant temps. I also wanted to log a few things really quick to see if I could bring any more info to my mechanic.

When I logged timing advance, idle timing looked completely normal.

 

[Tallen]

My god, this sounds like the dreaded crankwalk (may be on the last leg of the motors life), that or a rodbearing. If you have been running it alot, hope you have the $ for a new crankshaft. Check your crankshaft endplay for any signs of bearing failure (search).

 

[98RedGs]

Bump.

No
Don't get his thread locked for him.

 

[Defiant]

My god, this sounds like the dreaded crankwalk (may be on the last leg of the motors life), that or a rodbearing. If you have been running it alot, hope you have the $ for a new crankshaft. Check your crankshaft endplay for any signs of bearing failure (search).

I don't see crankwalk symptoms there.

Now we sit back and wait for the rest of the story. Were the fuel mods done in conjunction with the big turbo install, how hard was it run, how much was it raced, how old were the belts and on and on.

 

[blackGSX2g]

Alright, my mechanic is just starting on my car right now. As for the rest of the story, here goes...

Turbo was installed last week, approx. 500 miles ago. It was never abused, I was taking it real easy on it until about 350 miles of use. Even then, I only did a few WOT runs just to log a bit and put my MAFT back in tune. I have it tuned a little rich, and got GREAT timing advance. The wastegate on the 16g was set at 9psi, and I haven't touched it at all yet. I have full fuel control, but only a rewired pump. I figured at 9psi, it would be fairly safe until I ordered new pump, ic, and injectors. All belts were changed by the dealer about 15k ago and were/still are in good condition.

Crankwalk is ruled out, ever since I got the car, I've been tediously checking crank play and looking for symptoms. Also, if the crank just went out, I think it would smash into the crank angle sensor flagging a CEL and sending pieces in my oil pan.

I should hear from the garage in a few hours and will keep you posted.

Thanks

 

[heavyD]

No
Don't get his thread locked for him.

Your silly.

 

[blackGSX2g]

UPDATE:

Well, I heard back from my mechanic and the bottom end is pretty much ruled out. Timing is fine, so it didn't jump a tooth. According to his best guess at this time, its something with a lifter siezing up or something, because the sound kind of comes in waves, whereas a bad rod bearing would just be constant. Does this sound right?

Also, in order to make sure its a lifter, he needs to take the camshafts off and the timing belt off. This costs $350 just to check, not including what it would take to fix it. Here's another thing. I found a 2g head for $100 that I could go pick up and just put on, but that would cost ~$500-600. I would do it myself, but I can't afford to keep having it towed everywhere and its already at the shop now.

Do I take the chance that its a cheap fix in the head and pay him just to look, or do I just replace the whole head for a total of around $700?

 

[scottr126]

I have a Complete Mint 2G Head w/ cams and everything for sale here in Northeast Illinois. I will do $100 Shipped or $80 picked up. Shoot me a PM if interested.