Head work

[P1za]

Was wondering what cams give n/a's the best hp gains. And also wanted to know why I would need to get cam gears as well. Ive done a bit of searching and noticed that crowers2 and 3 cams are pretty popular, but would like some numbers on them. Also wanted to know what I would need to do to my head to get the most out of it, such as lifters, valves, springs and retainers. Porting would be done for sure.

 

[92AWDHX40]

420A DSM Tech - DSM Forums

 

[P1za]

Thanks!

 

[Shake_Zulla]

Cam gears don't effect lift and duration, just timing.
2GNT.com - Stage_3

 

[Slo2gen]

Own a 4G63? READ THIS before you post in the 420A Forums, and be WARNED!
We've had some trouble in the past with owners of factory turbocharged DSMs coming into these forums and advising N/T DSM owners to sell their cars and buy a turbocharged car. That is not to happen anymore. If you do not own a N/T DSM and have never owned one, please avoid giving any advice in this forum. By now, N/T DSM owners probably already understand that it is not cheap or easy to turbocharge their N/T DSM. It may be cheaper to sell their N/T and buy a factory turbocharged DSM, but we'll let them choose their own path. If they want to ask questions about swaps and conversions, do not try and dissuade them.

Copied and pasted from the very top of this forum!

 

[powellds2]

Anybody can go out and buy a factory turbo DSM,But building a turbo 420A is an achievement that most smack talkers couldn't handle!

I love seeing most 4g63's, they are very beautiful sight in my rear view mirror.... j/k, OP, if you're looking at cams, go with some used Crower 2's if you can find a good deal, the 3's might be a little too much of an idle issue for you since they are a bit more aggressive. Cam gears will remove some of the overlap that you'll get from bigger cams, they're not a must, but recommended. You do need to at the minimum upgrade your valve springs. Port and polish work will compliment the cams, as will any bolt on such as intake, tb, header, exhaust etc. If you go that cam route, I would get some adjustable gears, upgrade the rockers and lashers, and get Crower valve springs and titanium retainers, or the chromoly retainers.

 

[8BoltDSM]

different cams offer different power gains but more importantly they offer power in different parts of the RPM range. How you plan to use your car determines what kind of cams you need. I ran the crower stage 3 cams in my last build and they are designed to give the power at the top end of the RPM band however i had it tuned in well and i was able to still have a near stock idle.

 

[powellds2]

Do you have ms? Or are you planning to get a stand alone?

 

[91stocker]

Please read.

This should also be in bold and all caps at the top of the 420a section.
Mitsubishi Eclipse RS - Report - Import Tuner Magazine

 

[jcart953]

Please read.

This should also be in bold and all caps at the top of the 420a section.
Mitsubishi Eclipse RS - Report - Import Tuner Magazine

^^^ what does that have to do with cams??

 

[91stocker]

^^^ what does that have to do with cams??

Lol your dyno numbers are another good example

 

[jcart953]

Lol your dyno numbers are another good example

Um not really because it doesn't include cams, besides thatI had a few things thats wrong with my car that technically made the numbers even smaller (once fixed I expect slightly higher ). In any case I stand by my previous statement WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH CAMS?????? Let me answer that for you...wait for it...wait for it...oh thats right NOTHING!!!!! His question wasnt how to go the fastest but rather which Cams gave the best performance n/a, nothing about i/h/e. Therefore your comment is both rude and unnecessary to the question at hand. If you have nothing useful to contribute you shouldn't.

Not to mention the cost of his cams are probably the same cost of your car so I'm not to sure why your acting all high and mighty. So maybe that should be bold and in all caps?

 

[Slo2gen]

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[91stocker]

Um not really because it doesn't include cams, besides thatI had a few things thats wrong with my car that technically made the numbers even smaller (once fixed I expect slightly higher ). In any case I stand by my previous statement WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH CAMS?????? Let me answer that for you...wait for it...wait for it...oh thats right NOTHING!!!!! His question wasnt how to go the fastest but rather which Cams gave the best performance n/a, nothing about i/h/e. Therefore your comment is both rude and unnecessary to the question at hand. If you have nothing useful to contribute you shouldn't.

My point is obvious. Dont waste your money. All those bolt ons for 4hp. Take your 116whp for example. With cams what are you expecting? 10whp would be very generous. How much would you have invested to make 126whp? Theres a dyno of a intake/exhaust/mbc 1g that dyno'd 230whp. 100whp more for the same investment. You n/t guys really need to be honest with new members and help steer them down the right path, or at least inform them with realistic info and goals.

Not to mention the cost of his cams are probably the same cost of your car so I'm not to sure why your acting all high and mighty. So maybe that should be bold and in all caps?

Well considering my car is worth the same as a 2g n/t, that makes your post pretty ironic doesnt it?

 

[P1za]

Well I have right now is a cold air intake and full exhaust system. No tuning software. Pretty much a stock car. Wanted to know about building a head and seeing what kind of power I could get nt from my car. So far the power I want is just enough to shut down other cars on the street nothing big like corvettes or or buggati(not sure how to spell that). Will I need tuning software if I build my head? And so far I'm thinking of getting crowers2 and keeping the stock cam gear. Thanks guys!

 

[91stocker]

Well I have right now is a cold air intake and full exhaust system. No tuning software. Pretty much a stock car. Wanted to know about building a head and seeing what kind of power I could get nt from my car. So far the power I want is just enough to shut down other cars on the street nothing big like corvettes or or buggati(not sure how to spell that). Will I need tuning software if I build my head? And so far I'm thinking of getting crowers2 and keeping the stock cam gear. Thanks guys!

Look at this guys mod list. Pretty extensive, and he makes 140whp.
DSM Forums - View Profile: Fotowntalon

So get your head built w/cams and every bolt on they make, and you might make as much as him.

 

[98zx23369]

you guys gotta chill. help the op. He asked a question about cams. I think if you really wanted cams the stage 2 would be best. looking at the lobes I think the stage 3 is a little aggressive for a dd. But stage 2 looks like it idles good and looks like it would be a badass dd. I honestly don't have a n/t , but I did do a little research

I did have a zx2, I know. The best mods you could do on thoughs were cold air intake, A chip and alittle bigger injectors

That's just my 2 cents on the topic maybe it helped in some way

 

[dalesmitsu]

Check this link out also, 2GNT.com - POWER But if you do decide you want to turbo your 420a. You can buy one part at a time slowly and do the 2GNT.com - Project_420a_Sleeper 2gnt sleeper . When I first got my 2gnt car this was favorite and still read it from time to time.

 

[jcart953]

My point is obvious. Dont waste your money. All those bolt ons for 4hp. Take your 116whp for example. With cams what are you expecting? 10whp would be very generous.

So If I get this straight you troll a N/T Bolt-on tech tread just to tell people to go turbo? Dude get a life! If he wanted a turbo he would have posted a thread regarding turbo information. I can never figure out why people with turbo always try and look down on N/A people because they don't want to follow the crowd.

Theres a dyno of a intake/exhaust/mbc 1g that dyno'd 230whp. 100whp more for the same investment. .

^^^who gives a rats ass. This a N/T thread about N/T stuff take that crap over to the turbo area.

How much would you have invested to make 126whp?

Who cares its my money and besides money isnt the issue because obviously I have enough to buy your piece of crap

Well considering my car is worth the same as a 2g n/t,

 

[powellds2]

It's all good, most non-turbo guys have to work for their hp goals, when or if they can't reach those power goals, or if they change, they go the turbo route, and they have a wealth of information from learning how to build their car and exactly what works and what doesn't. Hell, any douche can go out and buy a turbo car from the factory and talk smack..... oooooohhh. Besides, when you really want to make power, the motor needs to be rebuild, and you want a bigger turbo, so really, a 420a is or 4g63 is going to require the same amount of work... They made the srt-4 because the 420a Neon/Eclipse/Avenger/Talon were such a success with turbo, and srt's speak for themselves imo. Fast cars....
Also, when/if you decide to go turbo, those crower 2's and head work will all be compatible.

 

[starfish]

91 stocker,do you really think your giving P1za good info or are you just trying to be a D**K!Sorry if this affends you but I dont see how your post is helping the OP.Looking at your rep,I cant understand how its usefull and trustworthy.If you dont like 420A's then dont read or contribute to the 420A threads.I cant understand how the moderators let this go on.They should give 1 warning and then ban you from the 420A section if you cross the line again.All this negative talk about the 420A motor gives it a bad name making it hard to sell a car with a 420A for a decent price.Alot of bad can be said about a stock original 4G but I wont even go there because I know its wrong.Sorry about this being off topic,but this is been going on for to long now!

 

[Shake_Zulla]

Well I have right now is a cold air intake and full exhaust system. No tuning software. Pretty much a stock car. Wanted to know about building a head and seeing what kind of power I could get nt from my car. So far the power I want is just enough to shut down other cars on the street nothing big like corvettes or or buggati(not sure how to spell that). Will I need tuning software if I build my head? And so far I'm thinking of getting crowers2 and keeping the stock cam gear. Thanks guys!

Back to the issue at hand (after all these forums are for answering questions not giving personal opinions) no with a mild cam you will not "need" tunning software. I would highly recomend it though. The 420a computer is the biggest power robbing thing on our cars besides the auto trans. If I was in you shoes I would go with this...
AFX Computer 1997, 420A Manual Transmission
this would be the easiest
or...
MegaSquirt MS2 EMS ECU - SymTech Laboratories
That would net hp gains and a really good feel...

 

[91stocker]

So If I get this straight you troll a N/T Bolt-on tech tread just to tell people to go turbo? Dude get a life! If he wanted a turbo he would have posted a thread regarding turbo information. I can never figure out why people with turbo always try and look down on N/A people because they don't want to follow the crowd.

^^^who gives a rats ass. This a N/T thread about N/T stuff take that crap over to the turbo area.

Who cares its my money and besides money isnt the issue because obviously I have enough to buy your piece of crap

91 stocker,do you really think your giving P1za good info or are you just trying to be a D**K!Sorry if this affends you but I dont see how your post is helping the OP.Looking at your rep,I cant understand how its usefull and trustworthy.If you dont like 420A's then dont read or contribute to the 420A threads.I cant understand how the moderators let this go on.They should give 1 warning and then ban you from the 420A section if you cross the line again.All this negative talk about the 420A motor gives it a bad name making it hard to sell a car with a 420A for a decent price.Alot of bad can be said about a stock original 4G but I wont even go there because I know its wrong.Sorry about this being off topic,but this is been going on for to long now!

Have either of you ever built a real n/a 4cyl? I have. I made close to 200hp in a 2.2 ecotec. The money i had invested in that car would have built a 10 sec dsm.

I was caught up in the scene. I wish someone at the time would have been real with me. I would have never wasted my time.

So i feel the need to inform new members where they stand and what to realistically expect. Just be straight with these people. Unless you yourselves are delusional and need an ego check. Do this, take your car to the track, run 17's in your full bolt on n/t, then report back.

Most people new to cars think you can pick up 50hp with minor bolt ons. Truth is a full engine build might not pick up 50hp. I never see a n/t owner giving honest true advice to new n/t members.

Such as jcart953, you have yet to add one even minor contribution to this thread. While ive showed him dyno proven gains and linked him to a member with similar goals as his. So the only one trolling here is you. So piss off until you have something to contribute.

Who cares its my money and besides money isnt the issue because obviously I have enough to buy your piece of crap

Ok, wow. Just noticed these. Its clear now you are a delusional ricer. You are the type that makes our community look bad. What do you honestly think your neon is worth? Maybe 1k-2500 tops for one with low miles and perfect condition. What do clean auto awd 1g's with tasteful mods go for? I guess you didnt look at the pic on my av? Pretty damn clean 1g.

Go troll the honduh forums kid.

You want to support your n/t community, then be honest with them. Tell them the truth and what to expect. Such as 115whp with bolt ons and 16 sec 1/4 miles. And that the n/a record is 220whp with a full out engine build and custom itb's. And what turbo models cost and the gains they pick up easily is good info. They need to know what the better option is in performance and gain per dollar.

Then once they have the truth and still decide to continue on, then good for them.

 

[Shake_Zulla]

Useless and tired rant.

I have never seen you contribute any usefull information to the 420a section of the forum. Please answer questions and check your personal opinion at the door.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/420...-read-before-you-post-420a-forums-warned.html
DSM Forums - FAQ: Site Rules & Guidelines
Read these rules otherwise voice your opinions in PM's so you stop cluttering up are threads with stuff that has nothing to do with OP questions.

 

[91stocker]

I have never seen you contribute any usefull information to the 420a section of the forum. Please answer questions and check your personal opinion at the door.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/420...-read-before-you-post-420a-forums-warned.html
DSM Forums - FAQ: Site Rules & Guidelines
Read these rules otherwise voice your opinions in PM's so you stop cluttering up are threads with stuff that has nothing to do with OP questions.

Post #9 and #16 were the only useful posts on this page so far. And guess what? Those were mine. I showed him dyno proven gains and linked him to a members mod list similar to his goals. Isnt that beginner advice to advise someone to look through other members mod lists that have goals similar to yours?

Edit: other then your posts. I've seen that you've made your contribution here.

jcart's useless trolling and attacks started that little back and forth and flurry of troll posts by others. Feel free to have a mod clean this up, but post 9 & 16.