Hard COLD start, bad ISC or something else??

[tsi1991awd]

91 Talon TSI AWD...it is hard to start in the morning. Its been cold here lately (WA) and it takes 3 or 4 times before the car starts. Then when it does start sometimes it'll stutter at a really low RPM before it starts warming up normal.

This is only on the first start of the day. Every other time it starts with no problems at all.

What could it be? I'm changing the spark plugs this weekend and the fuel filter next weekend. I have read the coolant temp sensor can cause it to have a hard start but this is only one time. It will start fine every other time. It idles fine, drives fine. Doesn't stall, die, etc. So I have no idea....

 

[tsi1991awd]

I still haven't figured out what's up with the cold start. After work yesterday, it would have a hard time starting as well. It didn't start up until the 3rd try. It had been sitting for 8 hours in the cold. Don't know how cold it was yesterday but I was freezing my nads off. There's nothing more embarassing than going out to your car with people around and it not starting...not only once or twice, but three or four times.

 

[Need2Gofaster]

I still haven't figured out what's up with the cold start. After work yesterday, it would have a hard time starting as well. It didn't start up until the 3rd try. It had been sitting for 8 hours in the cold. Don't know how cold it was yesterday but I was freezing my nads off. There's nothing more embarassing than going out to your car with people around and it not starting...not only once or twice, but three or four times.

I know the feeling, i'm the first one to leave the building, but last one to leave the parking lot. Gas stations are embarassing also. It not fun looking in the rear view mirror and seeing someone giving you mean looks cause your taking to long to move.

Sometimes it takes me around 10 times before it fires up, consider yourself lucky.

 

[tsi1991awd]

I know the feeling, i'm the first one to leave the building, but last one to leave the parking lot. Gas stations are embarassing also. It not fun looking in the rear view mirror and seeing someone giving you mean looks cause your taking to long to move.

Sometimes it takes me around 10 times before it fires up, consider yourself lucky.

I don't have a problem unless it's been sitting for like 8 hours, then it takes a couple tries. Other than that, it starts up fine. Wonder if it could be the fuel pump or something.

 

[talon187]

have you tryed checking to make sure your coolant temp sensor was hooked up? or replacing it ? my car did the exact same thing when i got it. it would take FOREVER to start on cold morrings somtimes i would think it wouldnt start. i would say you have a probelm after 8 hours because the car cools back down

 

[r1991_4g63t]

have you tryed checking to make sure your coolant temp sensor was hooked up? or replacing it ? my car did the exact same thing when i got it. it would take FOREVER to start on cold morrings somtimes i would think it wouldnt start. i would say you have a probelm after 8 hours because the car cools back down

did you read the thread AT ALL?

 

[b00stedtalon2]

Hopefully the problem gets solved. My girlfriends 94 does the same thing.

 

[DSM1G90]

Maybe for a sure test, is to pull the intake hose off the throttle housing, open the butterfly and shoot a blast of starting fluid, or carb cleaner down the throat then hit the key. If it fires immediately, then we can point to the fuel issue here.

 

[tsi1991awd]

That's a good idea....the other day when I ran over to my parents house, I tried cleaning the throttle butterfly off with carb cleaner because sometimes my pedal feels like it sticks and is hard to push down. Not all the time but sometimes when it's out of gear, put it in gear and try to push the pedal it feels kinda stuck and requires a bit more pressure to "break free". But yea, maybe I'll try that carb cleaner when cold and see what happens.

 

[DsmJapSpyder]

go to autozone we have stuff to check it out, i work in the one in queens uniontrpke
if you want come to my store and ask for david..

 

[DsmJapSpyder]

oooh i see your not in nyc.. my bad..

 

[DSM1G90]

pedal feels like it sticks and is hard to push down. Not all the time but sometimes when it's out of gear, put it in gear and try to push the pedal it feels kinda stuck and requires a bit more pressure to "break free"....

Remove the throttle cable (and, if available, the cruise control) linkage from the butterfly return spring and see if the butterfly opens better, or the stickiness that you're mentioning here. Odd bodkins that you're saying of "in gear" causing throttle resistance (never heard that one before....), but I'm wondering that your throttle cable has it's moments as well where you need to shoot WD-40 down the cable to slick it up some...and make sure that the cable isn't kinked anywhere.

 

[r1991_4g63t]

go to autozone we have stuff to check it out, i work in the one in queens uniontrpke
if you want come to my store and ask for david..

just curious, biut what do you have at autozone to check a 1g? ive seen the obdII scanners but was told thats it

 

[tsi1991awd]

Remove the throttle cable (and, if available, the cruise control) linkage from the butterfly return spring and see if the butterfly opens better, or the stickiness that you're mentioning here. Odd bodkins that you're saying of "in gear" causing throttle resistance (never heard that one before....), but I'm wondering that your throttle cable has it's moments as well where you need to shoot WD-40 down the cable to slick it up some...and make sure that the cable isn't kinked anywhere.

Well, say I'm at a stoplight and in gear....the first push feels like it is stuck a bit then it finally lets up and after I'm already driving, it doesn't feel like it's stuck anymore.

Also sometimes when I shift gears, let off the gas, then put the gas back down, it'll stick. It never sticks open, but it will stick closed it seems.

Where's the butterfly return spring at? Also, I've looked at the cable and it's not kinked up or anything...but it does run that oddball "circle" around the engine bay. But it's supposed to be like that. What's that silver box the cable connects to? Is there a way to adjust the cable?

 

[r1991_4g63t]

Well, say I'm at a stoplight and in gear....the first push feels like it is stuck a bit then it finally lets up and after I'm already driving, it doesn't feel like it's stuck anymore.

Also sometimes when I shift gears, let off the gas, then put the gas back down, it'll stick. It never sticks open, but it will stick closed it seems.

Where's the butterfly return spring at? Also, I've looked at the cable and it's not kinked up or anything...but it does run that oddball "circle" around the engine bay. But it's supposed to be like that. What's that silver box the cable connects to? Is there a way to adjust the cable?

mine had the same problem, i had take a can of intake cleaner, yes theres a difference, and used most of the caon on it and i dont have that sticky feeling when first steppingon the pedal anymore, the box is the cruise control module. aside from the 2 bolts ontop of the intake i dont know that there is any adjustment, but even then i dont think it would help the sticking

 

[tsi1991awd]

The sticking doesn't really bother me, I'm used to it...just don't know if it affects anything or....


I want to add something that might rule out some problems. This morning when I went to start my car (car sat from 5:30pm yesterday until 6:30am this morning and it was freezing out) I held the key trying to crank the car over and kept pumping the gas at the same time. I don't know if pumping the gas did anything but when I held the key and did that, the car started on "the first try".....GRANTED it took me maybe 10 seconds to get it started though. I don't know if its good to hold the key like that, but I did.

So I would say its some sort of fuel problem...could it be fuel pump or?

 

[DSM1G90]

Where's the butterfly return spring at? Also, I've looked at the cable and it's not kinked up or anything...but it does run that oddball "circle" around the engine bay. But it's supposed to be like that. What's that silver box the cable connects to? Is there a way to adjust the cable?

The silver box is your cruise control assembly and why the t-cables loop around like that since braided cable doesn't like to bend around sharp corners but rather bend easilly in circles.

Butterfly return spring is that big spring on the opposite end of the throttle plate. Cable adjustments are made in the silver box with adjusting the jam nuts to loosen the cable housing along with the two nuts that lock down the cable end to the intake plenum so you can have the proper slack in the t-cable to the butterfly.

...and (..) injected motors don't need "pumping" the pedal before starting..

 

[tsi1991awd]

I don't think the cable has anything to do with that stickiness...and its not all the time. Idk.

As far as pumping the pedal, I'm aware FI motors don't need it, but I was saying it started when I did that. Whether pumping the pedal had effect or no effect is another story. Maybe I just held the key long enough that it finally started. So I guess itd be safe to say its a fuel issue...

 

[r1991_4g63t]

should do a compression check

 

[tsi1991awd]

How's that done? Don't I have to buy a tool from Autozone or somewhere

 

[r1991_4g63t]

How's that done? Don't I have to buy a tool from Autozone or somewhere

yeah theyre fairly cheap, or you could take it somewhere and have it done, any shop should be able todo it

 

[tsi1991awd]

yeah theyre fairly cheap, or you could take it somewhere and have it done, any shop should be able todo it

How much would it cost a shop to do

 

[r1991_4g63t]

How much would it cost a shop to do

it all depends on what the labor rates in your area are like, but it should be under $100...

the testers are usually only 20-30 bucks

 

[interex]

I bought a cheap one when I was at a friends to help him and forgot mine, from Harbor Freight for like $9.00 and it came with two different adapter tips.

 

[r1991_4g63t]

I bought a cheap one when I was at a friends to help him and forgot mine, from Harbor Freight for like $9.00 and it came with two different adapter tips.

didnt mention harbor frieght ### they dont have them everywhere. but yeah if you have one around they have lots of goodies

 

[interex]

There are 3 within 100 miles of me, I forget they aren't spread out like AutoZone .