Had a Keydiver dual image chip burned for E85...

[matthewdesigns]

I've wanted to run e85 for a while, but did not want to convert to it permanently, since it's still hit and miss regarding availably, even here in Colorado. And I didn't want the expense/complexity of DSMLink. I wanted as close to a plug and play setup as possible. So, I had Jeff at Keydiver burn a dual image chip, for e85 and pump 91. I told him it was my DD, and I wanted a conservative tune, so he set it up for me that way for both fuels. He was really great to work with, even helping me with the final wiring setup for the switch, troubleshooting my fuel pressure issue, and following up with tuning help. Great guy! The rest of the goodies for the upgrade were FIC 950's, Aeromotive AFPR, and a rewired Walbro 255. I'm running an Evo3 16g with this.

So, what you get from Jeff is an ECU with a larger socket and eprom chip, and a wire extending from the assembly. All you do to flip between fuel maps is ground that wire. I had him burn the pump 91 map as the default, and e85 as the ground. I didn't want a toggle or rocker switch that could be easily snagged or thrown, so I installed a keyed switch. The car has to be turned off anyway to make the switch without screwing up the chip, so I keep the key on my keychain. I know, I'm anal, but at least it's safe. I also installed an LED to signal the e85 map, as an obvious visual reminder at fill-up as to what map/fuel I'm on.

The car is a monster on e85! I'm at 23-24psi and it's a total blast...scared to go any higher on the stock headstuds. The car just feels like it wants to jump off the ground! Even with Jeff's conservative tune, it feels a LOT quicker than it did on pump 91. Like I need to work on my 1-2 shift again, because first gear is gone in a blur now

Here are a few pics of the keyswitch and LED I put together for the setup. Made the switchplate out of titanium sheet. I engraved the switchplate and LED with a dremel-type tool and a 0.8mm round bur. The afc and logger usually live in the glovebox...they're just out for fine tuning the chip.

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Switch

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LED

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Now, it's off to the track for some numbers!

 

[Burnett03]

I like the way you setup the switch and LED. I wish you would have just got dsmlink. You can make on the fly changes, up timing, take timing away, change the mixture because you don't always get a 100% e-85 mix, sometimes it's e-70, sometimes e-80, etc.

 

[bling5tatus]

Dude, that is awesome. Congrats on a very unique setup. I am considering soldering my ecu to do the same. The key switch is a great idea.

 

[90laserRSfwd]

How much, if you don't mind me asking, did you pay for this dual image chip (you can PM me if you don't wanna share publicly. I saw his stage 3 chip is like $140.

 

[Killa_dsm]

Wow I really like that setup! Let us know how you do at the track, and Jeff definitely has great customer service and makes great chips.

 

[matthewdesigns]

I like the way you setup the switch and LED. I wish you would have just got dsmlink. You can make on the fly changes, up timing, take timing away, change the mixture because you don't always get a 100% e-85 mix, sometimes it's e-70, sometimes e-80, etc.

Thanks! I wanted it to be clean. I'll eventually ditch the cig lighter and install a gauge there...I think that'll help the switch look a little less random. And as for DSMLink, I really considered it for a while. I've been planning and researching this for months, and just felt the need to make it as smooth, quick, and easy as possible. I can always go with Link in the future, but for now, this will keep me happy.

Dude, that is awesome. Congrats on a very unique setup. I am considering soldering my ecu to do the same. The key switch is a great idea.

I looked all over the net and in local stores before finding this switch. And it's absolutely not going to change position without the key. It had leads soldered off the back already, and is metal...found another similar switch, but no leads, no arrow, and plastic. The LED may be overkill, but it'll also inform me of a bad ground, as the switch is a SPST, with both the LED and ECU grounded through the same wire.

How much, if you don't mind me asking, did you pay for this dual image chip (you can PM me if you don't wanna share publicly. I saw his stage 3 chip is like $140.

I already had a socketed ECU with a stock chip. So I sent him $200 and my standard socketed ECU, and received from him an ECU with the larger socket, new chip, and ground wire installed. So, if you need socketing, then it's probably going to be more...don't know how much, though. I ordered it on a Thursday, sent my ECU out overnight on Monday and had the new ECU on Tuesday or Wednesday. To get this chip, I started the order for a "normal" chip, since there's no dual image option. Then used the comment box to tell him what I wanted to do with the dual image, and he contacted me to discuss what was possible.

 

[turbo addict]

I've wanted to run e85 for a while, but did not want to convert to it permanently, since it's still hit and miss regarding availably, even here in Colorado. And I didn't want the expense/complexity of DSMLink. I wanted as close to a plug and play setup as possible. So, I had Jeff at Keydiver burn a dual image chip, for e85 and pump 91. I told him it was my DD, and I wanted a conservative tune, so he set it up for me that way for both fuels. He was really great to work with, even helping me with the final wiring setup for the switch, troubleshooting my fuel pressure issue, and following up with tuning help. Great guy! The rest of the goodies for the upgrade were FIC 950's, Aeromotive AFPR, and a rewired Walbro 255. I'm running an Evo3 16g with this.

So, what you get from Jeff is an ECU with a larger socket and eprom chip, and a wire extending from the assembly. All you do to flip between fuel maps is ground that wire. I had him burn the pump 91 map as the default, and e85 as the ground. I didn't want a toggle or rocker switch that could be easily snagged or thrown, so I installed a keyed switch. The car has to be turned off anyway to make the switch without screwing up the chip, so I keep the key on my keychain. I know, I'm anal, but at least it's safe. I also installed an LED to signal the e85 map, as an obvious visual reminder at fill-up as to what map/fuel I'm on.

The car is a monster on e85! I'm at 23-24psi and it's a total blast...scared to go any higher on the stock headstuds. The car just feels like it wants to jump off the ground! Even with Jeff's conservative tune, it feels a LOT quicker than it did on pump 91. Like I need to work on my 1-2 shift again, because first gear is gone in a blur now

Here are a few pics of the keyswitch and LED I put together for the setup. Made the switchplate out of titanium sheet. I engraved the switchplate and LED with a dremel-type tool and a 0.8mm round bur. The afc and logger usually live in the glovebox...they're just out for fine tuning the chip.

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[/IMG]

Switch

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[/IMG]

LED

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[/IMG]


Now, it's off to the track for some numbers!

Put some headstuds in the car! It costs like $100 and takes only like 30 to 45 minutes to install. I have the dual image e85 chip also, I was running out of fuel though, I just got my lines and hope to install them this weekend so I can get the boost back up!!

 

[matthewdesigns]

Put some headstuds in the car! It costs like $100 and takes only like 30 to 45 minutes to install.

With or without pulling the head? I'm not too keen on pulling the head off. I've read a few threads here about doing it with the head on, so I'm curious as to which method yields a 45 minute turnaround time.

 

[tbonitz301]

With the head still on the car.

 

[turbo addict]

With or without pulling the head? I'm not too keen on pulling the head off. I've read a few threads here about doing it with the head on, so I'm curious as to which method yields a 45 minute turnaround time.

Yes, head on the block in the car.
You pull the valve cover and take one bolt out and replace it with the stud and torque, I have done this 5 or 6 times now, all different dsms, and have never lost a head gasket! I run between 32-35 psi on my car and have done so for 5 years now. My motor has never been taken apart, I also just did valve springs and retainers also not braking the seal on the head but that is another story. I torqued all of my headstuds ( all the cars that I have done) to 105ft-lbs (with the molylube) and as I said I have never had a problem. You don't have to touch anything other than the valve cover. The cams, timing stuff everything is left undisturbed.
Just replace them in the order that you would install them, and just complete one at a time.
really easy!!
Any more questions feel free to pm me.

 

[matthewdesigns]

I'm bringing this back up from a little nap to update it. After installing all these goodies, an unfortunate series of events lead to the death of the motor, none of which were related to the new chip and fuel setup. In the meantime, I've had a new 7 bolt built for it by www.jackstransmissions.com , with a 1g rod/2g piston combo, ARP headstuds, and lifetime warranty against crankwalk They are a fantastic shop to do business with. All my other mods are listed in my profile.

I finally got her broken in, and out to the track this past weekend. It was really crowded, because the track closes for the winter next weekend, and I was only able to get 3 passes in over the course of 7 hours However, I beat my goal, and think I have even more in the car, if i can get a good launch out of it.

I went out looking for a low 13 as a best run, and got that my first time up. I ran a 13.1 @ 106 with a 1.8 60', shifting like granny . After a pep talk and some coaching as to my shifting style, I cracked off my best run of the day, which was 12.7 @ 109, with a crappy 1.9 60'. Unfortunately, I red lighted my last run, which was on the "fast" side of the track. If I can pull off a better 60', then I'll be in the lower 12's with this setup! Not bad for a daily-driven car that weighs 3380lbs with me in it .

 

[JayRolla]

Man we pretty much have the same setup. Im glad I know I can hit a mid 12 up in this altitude. I really have a goal of 11.9 and will be shooting for that next summer with some weigh modifications. Nice run on a 16g up in this altitude expecially with that 60'.

 

[tsitalon03]

Get some cams 272/272's that should put you in the low 12's.....if I had some e-85 over here I prob would have my keydiver converted to the dual image too...good job though.

 

[jrohner]

I like the way you setup the switch and LED. I wish you would have just got dsmlink. You can make on the fly changes, up timing, take timing away, change the mixture because you don't always get a 100% e-85 mix, sometimes it's e-70, sometimes e-80, etc.

Just save yourself $500 bucks and get a chip burner or an emulator. It's super easy to do EPROM tuning. Link doesn't even give you full control of your maps, EPROM tuning does.

 

[matthewdesigns]

I'm not code literate at ALL, so it's really uncharted territory for me. I really don't want to screw my car up because I entered the wrong character here or there. And Jeff at Keydiver has been extremely helpful, throwing out a bunch of ideas and suggestions as to how to improve my tune. I'm OK with paying him to reburn my chip a few more times until we get it to as fine a point as possible, given all the extra support I've received from him. If I was going to change my setup frequently, then I'd probably be more inclined to go with a burner, and learn how to do it. But I really wanted something as close as possible to plug and play, and his chip gives me that.

 

[JayRolla]

I like link because its on the fly, and you dont have to pull your chip for eprom editing.

 

[jrohner]

I like link because its on the fly, and you dont have to pull your chip for eprom editing.

Ostrich emulator $175. still saving 350-400 bucks. You can actually tune maps instead of stupid sliders that fudge the junky stock maps.

Before I got my emulator, I had my chip mounted outside the ecu so I could just reach down and pop the chip out and put a different one back in. Then I found an Ostrich on ebay for a decent price.

 

[jrohner]

I'm not code literate at ALL, so it's really uncharted territory for me. I really don't want to screw my car up because I entered the wrong character here or there. And Jeff at Keydiver has been extremely helpful, throwing out a bunch of ideas and suggestions as to how to improve my tune. I'm OK with paying him to reburn my chip a few more times until we get it to as fine a point as possible, given all the extra support I've received from him. If I was going to change my setup frequently, then I'd probably be more inclined to go with a burner, and learn how to do it. But I really wanted something as close as possible to plug and play, and his chip gives me that.

You can use his chip and do your own fine tuning on it with tunerpro, I think I saw somewhere that you can get an XDF from him for doing it, although you can just use an EB23E XDF. If you need to edit his stutterbox RPM settings, it's just a couple changes in the EB23E XDF. Quite easy to do.

 

[19BLACKGST98]

Im a tester for somthing new that is being done to our 2g eprom ECU's. If it all works out like its supposed to Ill post up what all he has done to my ECU. I originally just sent it to him for the Dual Image map (93 oct, C16)

 

[JrCRXHF]

I looked into doing a setup like this but my stock ecu was dead. That and i like things to play with and tune so i bought the EMS.

Lots of stuff to tune and i can do anything i want to do with the car.

 

[JayRolla]

Ostrich emulator $175. still saving 350-400 bucks. You can actually tune maps instead of stupid sliders that fudge the junky stock maps.

Before I got my emulator, I had my chip mounted outside the ecu so I could just reach down and pop the chip out and put a different one back in. Then I found an Ostrich on ebay for a decent price.

Very true, but those sliders work awesome. Solid afr's, and very controllable timing maps. Just because its a slider doesnt mean it doesnt work. Also v3 is coming out soon and will have full load based tuning.

 

[matthewdesigns]

Before I got my emulator, I had my chip mounted outside the ecu so I could just reach down and pop the chip out and put a different one back in.

So, do you use an external socket with a ribbon cable running to the ECU? If so, does the cable plug into a socket on the board, or is it soldered in? I ever end up making my own chips, I'd probably end up wanting to do some sort of external mount. I've thought about doing this, and that's how I originally envisioned my setup being put together, before I knew Jeff could make dual image chips. I figured I'd be manually changing chips out for each fuel.

Im a tester for somthing new that is being done to our 2g eprom ECU's. If it all works out like its supposed to Ill post up what all he has done to my ECU. I originally just sent it to him for the Dual Image map (93 oct, C16)

What's he doing to your ECU? You can't just dangle that out there and not give it up

 

[jrohner]

So, do you use an external socket with a ribbon cable running to the ECU? If so, does the cable plug into a socket on the board, or is it soldered in? I ever end up making my own chips, I'd probably end up wanting to do some sort of external mount. I've thought about doing this, and that's how I originally envisioned my setup being put together, before I knew Jeff could make dual image chips. I figured I'd be manually changing chips out for each fuel.

Yeah, from moates.net; the same place I got my chip burner. This setup requires no modifications. The cable plugs into the socket in the ecu, then into a socket on a little board that the chip goes on to which I plugged a ZIF socket into for easy chip changes. The cable is 18" long.

The 2-timer, also from moates.net, is for dual image chips. 1 tune on the first half, and the default tune on the second half. You just ground a wire to switch to the other tune. I don't have a 2-timer, but if I was still using chips instead of the ostrich I definitely would have one (well, one for each car actually).

 

[jrohner]

Very true, but those sliders work awesome. Solid afr's, and very controllable timing maps. Just because its a slider doesnt mean it doesnt work. Also v3 is coming out soon and will have full load based tuning.

From what I've seen, it seems to me that the timing adjustment is not load dependent at all, meaning when I add timing as much timing as I do in the mid-range for E85, my timing would be screwed at higher speed cruising. I don't really care to have 45+ degrees cruising on the interstate.

I could understand some people (but not me) spending the big bucks for link if it was superior for tuning but it's not in any way. The logging is great I've heard but $400 extra for great logging is crazy. You might as well go megasquirt (you'd still save a little money), it's cheaper and better than everything else I've heard of. I'd love to be in closed-loop mode almost all the time.

 

[19BLACKGST98]

What's he doing to your ECU? You can't just dangle that out there and not give it up

Sorry man I have to until I know it works or not. I have the ECU and about 8 or 9 diffrent chips but my car is being put back together now (#1 JE piston did not want to say in one peace) So after that I will post results. Lets just say DSMLink might not have all of the advantages over us that it use to