1G Gsc s1 vs Gsc s2? Should i go up?

[SasaniFab]

Some of you may know my setup, im basically running a pt6266 dbb ....Im currently running gsc s1 cams, I purchased these because I didnt want to go overboard like I always do and it suited my powerband. Now that my engine powerband has changed im wondering if that was a mistake. I dont want to rev past 8k. Do you think the s2 would make that much of an improvement over the s1s?Im running gsc springs and retainers.

 

[DetroitStroker]

Why not rev past 8k?

 

[donniekak]

Not Revving past 8k is a waste of that turbo.

With a .63 housing, forrester intake, and comp 272's my 3586 makes peak power right around 8,000 rpms, and holds flat past 9,000. With a .82 housing, same intake, and kelford 272's I made peak power at 8,850 rpms.

The spool difference is 500-700rpms in 3rd or 4th, but worlds apart in 1st or 2nd gear on the street.

 

[SasaniFab]

Not Revving past 8k is a waste of that turbo.

With a .63 housing, forrester intake, and comp 272's my 3586 makes peak power right around 8,000 rpms, and holds flat past 9,000. With a .82 housing, same intake, and kelford 272's I made peak power at 8,850 rpms.

The spool difference is 500-700rpms in 3rd or 4th, but worlds apart in 1st or 2nd gear on the street.

I thought your powerband was cam related regardless of turbo

 

[Geeb]

I thought your powerband was cam related regardless of turbo

Powerband has a lot of factors mainly cams and turbo alike. If you have a 16g your powerband will peak and die out a lot quicker on both ends compared to a 6266..

Aren't s1 cams like 264s, s2 like 272 and s3 like 280s? I think I read that once but I don't follow them too much.. The only gsc parts in mine will be the bronze stopper guides, and shorty stoppers on the other side. Literally the last part I need for when it gets done being decked and surfaced at the machine shop..

What's done to your head? Mainly springs and retainers? Are your cams billet or older style? If not are you going billet?

 

[donniekak]

I thought your powerband was cam related regardless of turbo

It's cam related, intake mani related, and turbo related.

A stock turbo with some huge 288 cams, and short runner intake isn't going to make power at 9000 rpms. Just as stock cams and intake won't get a 6870 making torque at 3,000 rpms like a stock turbo.

Changing the turbine housing on my turbo had a bigger effect on moving the powerband to the left than going from 226* to 212* of cam duration.

 

[Geeb]

Not threadjacking.. Just 1 question..

With a .63 housing, forrester intake, and comp 272's my 3586 makes peak power right around 8,000 rpms, and holds flat past 9,000. With a .82 housing, same intake, and kelford 272's I made peak power at 8,850 rpms.

I have a .63 pte6165, with a billet 11 blade 35r comp wheel and a 37r turbine shaft/wheel.. I got it used (rebuilt myself, the pte turbine wheel was chewed up.) and was a little angry I got the .63 because most people say their 35r flatlines around 5500rpm with the .63... You say different? Have you been on the dyno?

I'm still mid build so I have no experience....

 

[gsxeclipse102]

Amsrn13 with a smim and big turbo your topend would increase dramatically going with a bigger cam.

Geeb exhaust housing size depends on where you want the powerband also. A 1.22 a/r will suck below 6000 rpm but haul ass over 8000. Where as your .63 will be great up to around 7500 then start choking up a bit. Its all relative to how you want to drive the car. I have a tial v band .82 for my gt35 but have been on the look out for a 1.xx for more top end. I could care leas about lag. I think some people forget you can downshift and get back into the powerband.

 

[DetroitStroker]

i have both the .63 housing and .82 t3 housings for my hta82 and have heard the same as you @Geeb. I've been told that I will not be able to reach full compressor capabilities of 68 lbs/min with a .63 housing many times, however with my target redline around 8500 rpm I forsee having to play with both to find out what will work best. I also decided to go with a cyclone intake to help bring power in the fastest.




Amsrn- If you have the valve train to support 9k rpm you are definitely good to go there with the intake and TB you have. If you don't have valve train you should upgrade springs and go to the s2 cams while your doing your springs.

 

[donniekak]

Not threadjacking.. Just 1 question..



I have a .63 pte6165, with a billet 11 blade 35r comp wheel and a 37r turbine shaft/wheel.. I got it used (rebuilt myself, the pte turbine wheel was chewed up.) and was a little angry I got the .63 because most people say their 35r flatlines around 5500rpm with the .63... You say different? Have you been on the dyno?

I'm still mid build so I have no experience....

A 35r in a .63 is just starting to make power at 5500 rpms on a 2.0.

A couple months ago I did almost 2 weeks of testing between cams, cam timing, and housings.

The .63 spools way faster, and makes almost the same power up top as the .82, under 30psi. As you get over 600-650whp the .82 starts making a good deal more power from 8,000-9,000 rpms.

 

[SasaniFab]

i have both the .63 housing and .82 t3 housings for my hta82 and have heard the same as you @Geeb. I've been told that I will not be able to reach full compressor capabilities of 68 lbs/min with a .63 housing many times, however with my target redline around 8500 rpm I forsee having to play with both to find out what will work best. I also decided to go with a cyclone intake to help bring power in the fastest.




Amsrn- If you have the valve train to support 9k rpm you are definitely good to go there with the intake and TB you have. If you don't have valve train you should upgrade springs and go to the s2 cams while your doing your springs.

I have the springs and retainers and valves......but I went with s1 cams because I had a fp green. Now that I have the new turbo im thinking the s1s are holding me back. I don't know if spending another 600 is worth it.

 

[donniekak]

Amsrn13 with a smim and big turbo your topend would increase dramatically going with a bigger cam.

Geeb exhaust housing size depends on where you want the powerband also. A 1.22 a/r will suck below 6000 rpm but haul ass over 8000. Where as your .63 will be great up to around 7500 then start choking up a bit. Its all relative to how you want to drive the car. I have a tial v band .82 for my gt35 but have been on the look out for a 1.xx for more top end. I could care leas about lag. I think some people forget you can downshift and get back into the powerband.

There are some issues with a late powerband with these cars. When I had a setup tuned to make power from 6,000-9,000 rpms one of my issues was the gear ratios. With stock gearing you can rev 1st to 9200 and still drop into 2nd below the full boost threshold.

Street driving is also horrible with a big intake, big cams, and a 3586 in a .82. If I didn't launch the car my wastegate set at 30psi wouldn't open in first until 8,000+ rpms. Then when I shifted to 2nd at 9200 it would fall out of boost. An evo3 1st gear, evo3 3-4, and a faceplates trans would really help with this issue a lot.

 

[Geeb]

I have the springs and retainers and valves......but I went with s1 cams because I had a fp green. Now that I have the new turbo im thinking the s1s are holding me back. I don't know if spending another 600 is worth it.

Remember you can always sell your s1 cams and recoup like almost or about half back depending on condition

 

[donniekak]

Although I like the .63 housing up to 600 or so whp, and the .82 after that. There has been good power made on .63 housings. http://www.evolutionm.net/forums/evo-dyno-tuning-results/703462-8-rs-2-0-3586-e85-400whp-700whp.html

 

[Geeb]

Street driving is also horrible with a big intake, big cams, and a 3586 in a .82. If I didn't launch the car my wastegate set at 30psi wouldn't open in first until 8,000+ rpms. Then when I shifted to 2nd at 9200 it would fall out of boost. An evo3 1st gear, evo3 3-4, and a faceplates trans would really help with this issue a lot.

I have a jmf drag to q45, hks272s, and a .63 6165 to 3inch vband turbo back exhaust... But I'm also buying a 3in (short route) uicp. 2.5 lower...

What are your guys opinions on this setup I feel like I'm contradicting myself on the big intake stuff (manifold, tb, uicp) to that small .63ar...

 

[Geeb]

I'm going for about 600 peak the trans I'm getting won't hold much past that...

 

[DetroitStroker]

Amsrn- I think you will be more then happy when you drive your car to 9000 - slam a gear and stay in it until 9000 again.

And imagine all that is left on the table with boost (you can run 30+) and having a professional tune it. Especially since you run race gas vs pump or e85. I'm sure the timing and more can be tweaked to be optimum; but a single wally 450 keeping pressure needed at 9k at 30+ psi might not be enough

 

[SasaniFab]

Amsrn- I think you will be more then happy when you drive your car to 9000 - slam a gear and stay in it until 9000 again.

And imagine all that is left on the table with boost (you can run 30+) and having a professional tune it. Especially since you run race gas vs pump or e85. I'm sure the timing and more can be tweaked to be optimum; but a single wally 450 keeping pressure needed at 9k at 30+ psi might not be enough

I can tell you the motor is so much more rev happy since dropping the Fp manifold. I could never go back to a 8cm housing.... chokes the motor.

 

[gsxeclipse102]

Now imagine a larger cam breathing better. You get to 30 psi yet?

 

[Vegas Smith]

Now imagine a larger cam breathing better. You get to 30 psi yet?

Dude he already sold the 6766 for a Super 99. JK ams

 

[gsxeclipse102]

Lol id believe it. Prob running on straight methanol now too.

 

[Geeb]

I can tell you the motor is so much more rev happy since dropping the Fp manifold. I could never go back to a 8cm housing.... chokes the motor.

I remember I had a buschur 20g td05 8cm on a 2g ported manifold tuned at Like 18-19psi. Full boost was at like 3900 but my red line was set at 6500rpm.. Decided to put it up to 7250. And not only was that useless because of exactly what you described, the motor was turnin blue from chokin... But also, POP went the tranny..

 

[SasaniFab]

Now imagine a larger cam breathing better. You get to 30 psi yet?

To be honest guys they got me bent over at work..... nursing is ruff, I'm on 9 days straight two doubles. That's probably why I say you Fp black I deserve better. But on the serious note, as much as I love changing things I need to get the car dialed in and go from there. I find that my car habit and part buying is my coping mechanism. It's like my therapy. I love changing things and making it better, it's almost like playing a game as a kid building a character up.. if that makes any sense. I'm going to focus on getting the bigger injectors in... the fic 1650s, I was so focused on the deadtime and global I didn't even realize that voltage table for the injectors. That's probably why I was having trouble getting them dialed in. I want to get those injectors dialed in and take it to the dyno to get some graphes for my wall.

 

[SasaniFab]

I have a tank full of c16, I'm gunna burn through that and go e85 permanently. I have the pte 1000cc in currently and I'm finding at 30psi I might be running out of fuel

 

[SasaniFab]

In fact I wouldn't mind seeing what others are using in that voltage table. Anyone else running high z 1650s